oh that was very deftonesy i was close in then because on this album yeah oh dear tightly mike

tight sorry i thought i prepared myself before we pressed record but i pressed record and then

thought my mic isn't where i want to press record isn't that funny press record press record yeah

yeah don't do that taping people say can you take this so we're taping a podcast now we're taping a

podcast yeah on uh i heart radio and apple and spotify and all those places where you listen to

it yeah all of those places yeah it's going well we're doing all right with this podcast it's good

still here and people keep listening i watch i love matt armstrong on the youtube because he's

only up the road from me yeah and i i like him a lot if you watch matt armstrong on on youtube

he's dead good i'm not going to tell you because it's it but he does he men's car the watch man is

it oh no he's the car man's car he's dead he's dead good i like him yeah um but yeah he he did a bit

this week where where they were they were humming to some songs yes while they were mending a car oh

i see do you have to guess guess what the song was no they were just humming oh his videos get

like five million views and then they just stop halfway through and he's like god can you believe

how many people watch this and it's mad isn't it yes well but thank you thank you for tuning in again

i watched a week off yeah well yeah we did have a gap you had to be a rock star you had been on tour

and everything didn't you yeah i did a little bit of that it was nice it was lovely yeah i went to

newcastle then to glasgow then to stockport and then like for our american friends they'll look

on the map and go they're all next to each other yeah they're miles away there's loads of driving

my um my my mates neighbor from the us at the minute and he's like why does it take so long to get

everywhere in the us you can travel like 500 miles in 20 minutes yeah but you just you just you just go

and you get in you get in your car and you can just drive these big roads yeah whereas here you've

got to deal with the b roads and the a roads and you've got to deal with you know traffic calming

well the thing that i noticed was when you went into the scotland yeah so you go up up yeah yeah so

you go up were you on the a1 um a1 yeah yeah yeah no the m6 i can't remember now

were you on the right or the left i followed the other person

um i reckon it was the right that's the one okay so that's the one we went on i think that goes all

the way up yeah yeah yeah i think it does it goes all the way up yeah one of the yeah um and you go

and you go into scotland and you see the flag yeah scotland flag yeah and then all the traffic stops

oh until you get to glasgow then it's mental there's that lovely thing isn't there where uh

like loads of invading forces because we've been invaded quite a lot here in yeah and lots of them

get to scotland and just go oh well just leave that just leave them to it yeah so the you know the um

like the heritage of of england is really mixed so if you if you trace your ancestry back you'll be

anybody yeah you're proper mongrels here you're made up of all kinds of different people scotland it's

not okay i mean it is but not as not as much as it is yeah yeah like far fewer people have invaded

scotland i like listening to them in scotland i like the i like the yeah hearing him speak yeah it's

just lovely i like that there's a girl on x who's from scotland and she's just swearing really well

yeah i don't know whether they taught it in school but she's brilliant at it you know i think swearing

is one of those things where you if you're not careful you can sound a bit yeah do you know i mean

there's a skill to it i think yeah yeah and i think it is one of those things that's not taught

in schools yeah but it perhaps should be yes i mean if you're going to be a swearer yeah you should be

learned learn how to do it properly it's like bad grammar you know somebody does grammar badly yeah

poorly you think yeah i think swearing's the same yeah you can sound a little bit crass if you're not

yes whereas whereas if you're good at it yeah you drop drop one in it's like a bomb it's like

it just sounds lovely you're like oh that's not smart i think it's clever just language at the end of

the day yeah what are we doing uh deaf tones white pony um i like this album i love it i love you know

why do i love it because it's it's like it's like in the electronic woods a little bit it's like it's a

little bit in the woods yeah um but i've got synths and beats in there new is it new words yeah

new metal yeah i i do you know i i this is another album that i didn't pick up at the time no because

for me it was in this big glut of new i just oh that all of the media was and i was just new metal

yeah i thought i don't really like that so i ignored it for a bit it was only way later down the line

that you kind of picked up i thought this was nothing like no no no the other bands that they

were like the limp biscuits and stuff that they were and linkin park yeah it's all part of yeah yeah and

it just wasn't i i love it i love the soundscapes and the textures and the ambiences and because it

was frank frank delgado's isn't it who joined as a permanent member doing all the sort of those sort

of things change the sound totally changed it i like the ambient bits i like the bits where

you know it's like an electronic beat or something it's like lo-fi it's it's just great it's the

dynamics of this album from the beginning like the original album has a different track

listing yes to the later one that's on the apple music so we started with the first track of what

the album but that's not the first track originally is it no and it was i wrote it afterwards yeah and

it's interesting it was done like a behest of the uh record that's 10 points for getting behest in

at that at that time the record company didn't have any say about what music we made i mean

up up until that point i guess we we would make a record we'd finish it record it we'd give it to

them and they would put it out and that's how we did with white pony and uh and uh and what happened

was they they you know they released that record and they and then and then four months or six months

down the road they uh they said well you don't have another single on it so they asked us to they

wanted to really they wanted us to write to rewrite one of the songs on the record and do like more of

a rap you know esque or like you know something a little bit more like limp biscuit i.e poppy roach

popper roach and um and uh whatever and and right away we're like no you know i mean why why would we

do that you know i mean there's all these other songs on the record like work that's what you know

you guys are here to do is like you know get behind it put it out and it is what it is and i already

felt when we made that record we kind of made a stance that we were you know going a little bit left of you

know that direction but we ended up getting talked into it and we ended up um and it was kind of a

thing where like you know i wanted to kind of show them how easy it would be to like write a simple

like you know rap verse vocal uh you know chorus song whatever blah blah so we went i went in and one

day rewrote the song recorded it gave it to him and said okay it said it said here see you know you know

like it's nothing there's nothing to this it's not really any substance here but uh i didn't dislike the

song i didn't hate it whatever like okay well we're gonna release the record and put this on it

we're gonna film give you guys a million dollars to film this video with paul hunter who you know

is doing eminem and britney spears videos and and uh and uh here you go this is your guys's chance to

to blow up so we just said at that point you know our record was about six months either we're gonna do

that or they were not gonna market our record anymore so we just said okay did and they re-released

the record with the song on it we shot the video and we did everything in it and it you know was

i can tell like from a lot of the fans you know the hardcore fans they were like why would you do that

you know whatever and it's like so we kind of had to you know i guess explain why or whatever but you

know that's one of those things where you know you make a decision and you know that's what it is

i'm gonna pronounce this but i've never pronounced this out loud before but

petisiera oh very good petisiera yeah that's good um so that was the first track on the album on its

release um well went well album did okay yeah and the record label were just like oh we need another

single yeah you ain't got one yeah go and write another one single it wasn't a change yeah and then

they were like go and give us another single yeah so they went back into the studio and almost out of

spite produced this simple they were like no that's not what we know we and it was a it was a it was like

a fragment of of the the last song on the record yeah the last track yeah so they went and took

yeah and then produced um back to school yeah back to school mini maggot yeah um which became the the

interest and most people will have uh that at the big that at the beginning um but it's interesting it

flows an album it flows it's got this i don't know like some albums they there's like a journey that

you go on you know i mean and and there's an there's like an ebb and a flow to it um i always

remember uh listening to uh charlie benante from anthrax talking about this in the live show yes

saying that um that there's like a you can't keep the energy level flat all the way through the show

there's like there's that you've got to have this period where people recover a little bit and then

you build back up again right yeah and i remember listening to him think i have no idea what you're

talking about yeah um but but it it it it this this album i think does it really well where there's

space there's there's like you know you there are bits in there that are like really heavy i mean it's

really heavy riffs in here yeah but it's not all the way through it's not it doesn't feel compressed

it feels like it's got air and there's room to breathe and there's like you said there's bits in

there where there are soundscapes yeah yeah do you know what i mean it's like it's like the first

listen through it's like oh it's like an odyssey you kind of where where next what is yeah you're

never quite sure whether you're going to get absolutely slammed with a like a you know really

chuggy riff yeah or it's just going to break into like some kind of like delicate soundscape yeah um

yeah and it's it's phenomenal i mean compared to a lot of the other albums at the time yeah

that were like monosyllabic almost they were kind of like you know the the limp biscuits was kind of

like uh do you know what i mean well it was the mtv thing wasn't it yeah everything's got to be

a single everything's got to be yeah yeah yeah and they didn't and i think one of the reasons i think

they got away as i got away with one of the reasons i think they were able to do it yeah um so the record

label was maverick yeah it's kind of warner but it was run by madonna and she was really famous

like not being particularly hands-on you know i mean she was just like no this isn't yeah we're

she was quite arty so she would be like yeah you go off and do art yeah and then and then the but the

band would just go off record it and then slam it back to the label and go here you go yes you know

we're done we're done there's no conversation yeah yeah here it is um and also 99 was the peak of cds

so the music was important yeah you know it became the music sales were sales of the physical

thing were important so i i think that's why they kind of got away with it but um it wasn't long after

this that napster started and then and then you know music became free yeah no no one wanted to pay

for it every you know then then spotify and streaming and all of that stuff so it's interesting

for me this time this late late 90s yes it's kind of there's a lot of stuff where i think an album

like this probably wouldn't be made now no no no no yeah not with the investment it had no um and you

know the other thing i love about this is i love the tech i love the the tone and texture to it i love

because it's not it's in the it's in the the late 90s but it doesn't feel slammed to me it doesn't

feel click either it feels kind of this nothing's to click it's lovely on this is what you're funny

what you said about the ebbs and flows

Like I want to

To see

Like your eyes do

We are

Two stairs

Where no one

Can see

New life

Break away

Tonight

I feel like you're born

But today

You make

The water warm

You taste

For it

And I know

You can see

The core

Break away

Cause tonight

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

And tonight

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

I feel like you're born

So tight. You breathed. Then you stopped. I breathed. I dried you up.

And tonight I feel like mine. Oh, tonight I feel like mine.

I feel like mine. Oh, tonight I feel like mine. Oh, tonight I feel like mine.

Oh, tonight I feel like mine. Oh, tonight I feel like mine.

I feel like mine. I guess you'd call it the hood, whatever. And that's all the music we were surrounded by, just beats. At that time it was the late 80s or mid 80s as a kid. And everybody's cars driving by just basing and bumping. And rhythm was a big part of what we did. So for me, I was introduced to metal really in getting into this band. And Stefan, our guitar player, he's really...

He was one of the major writing forces in the band, obviously, at that point. And so his roots were metal. But I would take little parts of his riffs, say he'd have like a riff, but he'd do something and it'd have some rhythm to it where I could feel like it could bounce and hop. And that's how we'd craft the songs. We'd just make all these little parts, these little rhythmic parts and mesh them together into songs. And then I started to learn how to sing. And I'd kind of sing all in and out of them.

I think, you know, when I first heard it, I didn't like it because of that. Because at the time I was listening to your Offspring or your Green Day or your really...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Punchy and fast.

Yeah, yeah. It's all compressed. It's all slammed. It's all to click. It's all neat. It's all tidy. And this is really quite not that. This is very loose. There's a couple of ones where it's like this, you know, you're like scraping the wrong string and moments that...

As a guitarist, if I'd have tracked that, I'd have gone, oh, let me do that again.

Yeah, yeah. But they left it in because the vibe was right. And I think the imperfections in this album are as important as everything else.

Because those little human bits... Because they're a fragile band, I think. They're not particularly like...

You know, they fall out a lot. And there was a few members kicked out.

And, you know, it's not a... I don't want to say solid band because it is a solid band, but it's a band that feels quite frail or fragile in some sort of way.

Like, oh, that's not the right word. Brittle. Almost like you've got to be careful with it.

I mean, it doesn't feel like a gang like Motley Crue, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Do you know what I mean? Like Motley Crue where you... There's so many stories of them fighting in bars where you can't imagine Deftones.

No, it's not. This is more like a creative thing. This is a different sort of like...

There's a lovely quote, actually, in their blog where they talk about the differences allowing them to create a better album.

I think that's what I'm getting at. I think that's exactly what I'm getting at. So it's not to do with conflicts. It's not to do with that.

It's to do with this sort of like creative fragility or frailty that means you kind of have to work at something or you have to...

There is something there, isn't there? It feels alive.

Yes.

It's got this organic aliveness, right?

Yeah.

It does feel like... And I think, you know, we've talked about this before.

Like, you've got to be careful with it. That's the thing. You've got to be really careful with it and look after it.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you know what? It's just... The pen has just dropped a little bit for me because I've listened to their new album quite a lot this week.

They've got a new record out called...

Which you said, listen to it because it's really good and I forgot.

And you still not know.

But it's called Private Music. It's got a green cover and it's cool.

And I was trying to explain to you what it is.

Yeah.

And I can't. It's like there's something about it that reminds me of White Pony.

Yes.

There is something happening with this record that is reminiscent. It's not the same. It's not like a carbon copy.

Yes, yeah.

But it absolutely makes... I have the same feelings when I listen to it that I do when I listen to White Pony.

Oh, I definitely want to listen to it now, though.

And I'm kind of thinking, I don't know. But listening to you speak about it, I think it probably is that kind of organics that's the...

I'll tell you what you just said about Madonna thing. Like, leave them to it.

Yeah.

Don't interfere with that thing that they're doing because if you start, you'll break it. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you start trying to like, oh, right, it's a single, you know, and all that sort of stuff, you'll break that band. It won't work. You can't force it.

You have to let that band go in that studio, do their thing, do their thing, and then they'll come out with something ace.

Yes, White Pony. It's the best album out right now.

It's nice to have new songs. You know, we learned a little bit more.

We were out on the road tons about, you know, going around the world a lot more than we've ever been.

And you could always learn more stuff. So it was beautiful, man.

I make music that I like to make for myself anyway.

So, you know, the record label really has never been too, like, in tune to what we do, like, artistically, really.

They just kind of just let us do what we do.

And once we make a record, then they go out and give it to the people.

But we just basically just do what we do.

So the whole time we're making the record, I mean, it was stressful, but I mean, it was just trying to get the most beautiful songs we could possibly come up with.

And through a lot of the beautiful songs, there was a lot of, you know, little areas where, you know, it would just get hectic and crazy.

But we just try to keep it all beautiful.

And we did.

And to me, the record, it's a really moody record, but it's like an audio hug.

That's the way I picture the record.

It's good from beginning to finish, beginning to finish.

And that's what records...

There is something interesting about it, the new record, because it does invoke that feeling.

And I think, I was trying to put my finger on it, and I think it's that, that, you know, I would be really shocked if it was done to click.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it doesn't feel like massively compressed.

And it doesn't feel, I don't know, it feels really different to, like, modern music.

Yeah, yeah.

Clearly produced well.

There's songs that kick in, and they're speeding up through three or four BPM.

It's not massive, but it's enough to go, oh, God, that's moving, you know, it's that sort of thing.

You notice it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think, do you know, like, in classical music, they do that.

In classical music, they speed up.

They don't put a click track.

Yeah.

But it's interesting.

You get that, you get that feeling of being...

It's human.

It's real.

Part of it.

Yeah, I think that's what makes live music a bit special.

You feel a part of the whole thing.

Yeah.

And I think this is, I remember reviewing, it was a Trivium album, and it was exquisite.

It was so perfect.

Oh, just, I mean, the playing was incredible, guitar, production, everything was like, you

know, if it was a real thing, it would just be like, pinging with perfectness.

It would just like, you know, absolutely spotless.

Yeah.

And I got to the end of it, and I didn't want to listen to it again.

Do you know what I mean?

And it was such a great, I mean, there were some amazing riffs on there, really great songs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it really didn't...

It didn't move you.

It didn't pull me into it.

It didn't do what, you know, like, Master of Puppets does.

Yes.

It didn't do what I like a metal album to do.

Yeah.

But this, it's interesting, because like, this is an album that I, like I say, at the time,

I was just like, I don't, I'm not sure.

I didn't get it.

I'm not sure.

I didn't get it.

I didn't get it at all.

That's not going to be for me.

And then, yeah, you know, I've probably listened to Nothing But Deftones this week.

Yeah.

And it's, yeah, it's fast.

I love that change as well.

Yeah.

Like, this album was such a big change.

The interesting one for me is that, is that, is that, I still don't think as a band, Deftones

have absolutely landed with me yet, because we did a thing, we went, we did the download

thing the other year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Deftones were playing.

It was okay.

It was good.

It was all right.

They played great.

And then Korn came on, and Korn are just, like, these are a force of nature, live, aren't

they?

They're absolutely out of this world.

And it was interesting, because Paddy went to watch Deftones recently.

Yeah.

I think he actually met Chino, actually.

Of course he did, yeah.

I think they hung out for a bit.

But they, but he said, that blew him away.

In the same way that Korn blew his away when we watched him a download.

Yeah.

He said that particular, whatever was going on that night, or on this tour, or, you know,

wherever they are right now.

No, no, no, it was a gig.

It was quite recently.

It wasn't long ago.

It might have been to sort of, you know, warm up for this record.

And he just said they were a force of nature.

They were absolutely on fire.

See, I think that, you know, in a festival.

Yeah.

Like, sound, it's wibbly-wobbly.

Yeah.

And I can say that, because I studied acoustics for a long time.

Wibbly-wobbly.

Yeah.

But it moves with the air, and it's a bit weird in a festival.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like temperature and wind.

And it's just, yeah, and you're very much, you know, dependent on who set it up.

But you can't break the laws of physics.

No.

If you're a long way from the speakers, which you will be at a festival.

Yeah.

You're going to lose a bit of that impact.

It's going to be a bit weird.

Whereas, so, like, something nuanced and subtle, like Deftones.

Yeah.

Like, I can imagine, I'm trying to think of other bands that I've not seen at festivals.

That's interesting to use that terminology as well, because it really does nail it.

It is nuanced.

It is, isn't it?

Yeah.

I would imagine, like, bands, like, imagine, like, anything from Stephen Wilson or Porcupine

Tree, or, I was going to say Tool, but I think Tool will probably work at a festival.

But it's having that thick bottom end, that kind of percussive, kind of, you know, the,

like, Korn have got this really thick bottom end, which travels pretty well and pins it

down.

Yeah.

It's not, Korn's not particularly subtle.

It's quite, you know.

Yeah.

It's quite thumpy, isn't it?

Yeah.

And chuggy.

So it kind of works.

Whereas, I think something like Deftones.

Yeah.

In an arena.

Yeah.

Would work really well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, like, like you say, when we saw them at download, it was like, it didn't move you

in quite the same, the same way.

There are some albums like that.

And it wasn't bad.

Oh, God, no.

They didn't play bad.

They played brilliantly.

You know, it was good.

But it was just, it was just, yeah, it's interesting to say that.

You kind of want to watch them somewhere else.

Yeah.

It needs to feel a little bit different when you watch them.

There are.

Yeah.

We did Anthrax last week.

And I, I've seen Anthrax countless times live.

And the best times for me, they're in the Barrowlands.

I saw them in Scotland and I saw them in Rock City.

Yeah.

Like, Rock City's about, what, 1600?

I want to play Barrowlands one day.

It's nice.

I'd love to play there.

Lovely ceiling in Barrowlands.

But, but it's got, yeah, they, I've seen them in, you know, in festivals.

I've seen them in arenas and stuff.

But the best, for me, that they come alive at about 1600, 2000 seater venues.

Yeah, yeah.

And this is, it's different.

It's not like they're bad in an arena or bad in a festival.

But it's just that it works.

That's where, that's the place for that band to watch it.

Wild Hearts or another band like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They are, they, they just, it's like a, like a notch up.

I think seeing a band in the right place.

Yeah.

You know, but I saw Linkin Park in, in 2003 or 2003.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the Nottingham arena.

And they absolutely blew me away.

Just, just absolutely phenomenal.

I saw them in, it would only have been a couple of years later.

I think it was at Reading.

And it didn't do the same, same thing.

Tell me another band that did that was Guns N' Roses.

Really?

Yeah, I saw Guns N' Roses.

Who was in the band though at the time?

It was the original, it would have been the original line.

Really?

That would have been.

See, you thought that had landed?

Or was it about where you watched?

Sorry?

Was it Reading?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was their first, I saw them, oh God, what, 9, 90, I'll say 94, 98, 99.

And then, I know it might have been before that.

But then I saw them at Reading, the Reading, oh no, it was Leeds, not Reading.

It was at Leeds and it was their first return back.

Their Slipknot was support.

Right, right, right.

So imagine that for a gig.

Yeah.

So you had, I should go and look it up and see who else was on the bid, but you had like

Puddle of Mud.

Yes.

And then Slipknot and then Guns N' Roses, Headliner.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it was like you had the maggots and it was like a raging crowd.

And then, yeah, like the prodigy were there.

Oh, but that was amazing.

It was, that was how gigs were back then, a bit bonkers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they were a band that didn't like, I saw them, I saw them in, not necessarily smaller,

but enclosed space and they worked better for me than in a festival.

Do you know, Korn are probably the only band that I think would just blown me away at a

festival, Live Sound.

I think they were incredible.

Yeah.

It's tough, isn't it?

Yeah.

Like live, live festival sound.

Yeah.

You know, it's true.

It's the outdoor thing.

Yeah, yeah.

I think, I heard a story about one of the, I think it might have been Glastonbury where they

didn't even touch anything, but because it got hot, the temperature got hot.

Yeah.

Obviously, like sound travels faster or further and higher.

Yeah, it does, yeah.

And they had to turn the, they had to turn the whole thing down by 10 dB.

No way.

Because it started, the sound started from the, I imagine the pyramid stage.

Yeah.

Was overlapping over the, over the other stuff.

Getting too loud.

And then also like, you know, neighbors or.

There'd also be a man from the council with a clipboard.

By the wall.

Excuse me.

I think you're fine.

I need to turn it down, please.

Our first record of ours was Adrenaline.

It was 1995.

We'd been in band already for, really since 88, when we first started in the garage as kids.

And, you know, the music scene at 95 was, well, we're from the, we're from Sacramento,

which is Northern California, but it's close to like the Bay Area, San Francisco.

So a lot of what was going on in the Bay Area, you know, Oakland, you know, Berkeley, just that

whole area we were, we were influenced by, um, which bands like, uh, at the time, like, well,

obviously Metallica is from there, but like Faith No More, for instance, um, uh, there was a

lot of like funk influence, you know, from there too, which, um, which to us was kind of, um, you

know, our early roots, I think, um, musically come from a lot of different places, but, um, one of

the things that really is like rhythm driven, you know, music, um, as far as like, uh, like we

always looked at making riffs or whatever we were making that had, like, you could

nod your head to it and, you know, beat and pulse to it, and, uh, that's when listening

and I think I can really rap music and, you know, whatever.

My life, it's sharp and cream.

Come see, inside my bones, inside my bones, all the fiends off the block, I'm a new king, I'll take the queen,

'Cause in here, we're all anemic, in here, I mean, I can see it slow.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

Come get your knife, come get your knife, come get your knife, now kiss me.

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H.R. from the Bad Brains is a big influence.

I mean, he's another person who has his own thing, you know.

But very rhythmic and, you know, a lot of soul.

Shoot, there's a lot.

I mean, I grew up listening to Morrissey.

Yeah.

So singing-wise and lyric-wise, I mean, like,

he was a big influence.

As a kid, I used to, like, stand in my backyard with the mop

and sing, you know, like I was throwing a concert

and I'd pretend like I was Morrissey,

throwing my shirt off, you know, to nobody.

But I don't know, I mean, I always was intrigued by what he did.

And there's a lot of different, you know, Michael Jackson.

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, Prince.

Right.

Just a lot of different style, you know, different stuff.

I like the drums on this side.

In fact, I never used to like the drums

because I used to have a very specific...

Ooh, that's interesting.

...taste in drums, which was drums that were massive.

And these are tight.

These are snappy drums.

The snare cracks and...

It does.

Yeah.

But it's got like a texture to it, I think, this one.

Yeah, no, it has.

It's not like, if you listen to drums on Bryan Adams...

Yeah.

...or Def Leppard...

Yeah.

...that won't sound like a drum kit.

No.

They sound like...

They sound flat.

Yeah, they sound flat and they're rhythmic and flat things.

Whereas there's, I think Korn do it really well as well.

Yeah, yeah.

There's a few bands that I think have a beautiful...

Sepultura.

Yeah, but it's a quite high-pitched stick.

You hear the stick on the snare, it's quite high-pitched snare, it's tuned quite tight...

It's nice.

...and it snaps, it pops, it doesn't crack quite so much.

No, it sounds really real.

Yeah.

It sounds...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's got this kind of believable texture to it.

I really...

There's something I really like.

I like that.

I like being able to hear plectrums.

Mm.

I'm the same, yeah.

I like being able to hear it.

It kind of makes me feel like it's real.

It's real.

Yeah.

It's in the room.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I get it.

I totally get it.

And the reason I mention that is because that's Terry Date.

Terry Date?

Terry Date.

Shall we talk about Terry Date?

Yeah, Terry Date is a bit of a master at making drum sound musical.

We...

Shall we talk about some of the albums that he's done?

Yeah, go on.

So I'll tell you a little bit about Terry Date.

Do you know when he was born?

No, you don't know when he was born.

He was born January 31st, 1956.

Right.

So he's 69.

Yeah.

Did you just do that maths that quick in your head?

No, it's in Wikipedia.

First credited record, Metal Church, in 1984.

Right.

He did stuff...

I'm going to skim through some of the stuff.

It's always rock and metal, then.

Yeah, Sanctuary.

He did a lot of Metal Church.

Dream Theatres, When Dream and Day Unite, 1989.

Yeah.

Sound Gardens, Louder Than Love.

Oh.

Overkill, The Years of Decay, one of my favourite.

We've got to do...

Eventually, we'll do like a big, big, big thrashy stuff.

I bloody love Overkill.

I think they're brilliant.

Dark Angel, Sound Gardens, Bad Motor Finger, Screaming Trees, Pantera, Vulgar Display of Power.

Wow.

Just Prong, The Cleansing, which is the best album that's ever been.

I'm too scared to do that one in case.

But for those that are new to the show, Prong are the best band in the world ever.

He did Far Beyond Driven, Adrenaline, Great Southern Trennkel from Pantera.

He did Prong's Rude Awakening.

Yeah.

Then he did Around the Fur with Deftones.

Yeah.

Incubus, Science, Stained Dysfunction, Limp Bizkit, Significant Other.

Is there all really rhythmical albums?

They're groovy.

They're all groovy.

I just did this one.

He did Limp Bizkit's Chocolate Starfish.

Yeah.

Snoop Dogg's Greatest Hits.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Soulfly, O-Tep, I just...

All that rhythmical, percussive, it's all that, isn't it?

Loads of it, is that?

But the thing is, it's really interesting, because then he does the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack.

Uh-huh.

Which, fair enough.

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, official soundtrack.

He did A.

Do you remember A?

Yeah, I do remember that, yeah.

Funeral for a Friend, Ozzy Osbourne's Prince of Darkness box set, Corn Sea on the Other

Side, Soulfly Dark Ages, Smashing Pumpkins, Zeitgeist.

He did Zeitgeist?

He did Zeitgeist.

It's just nuts.

Rev Theory, Loaded.

Oh, The Taking, I didn't know he did that.

The drums on...

He's a drum guy, because the drums on Zeitgeist sound absolutely phenomenal.

So The Taking...

Yeah.

...is Duff McKagan's...

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

...which is brilliant.

If you like Guns N' Roses and that kind of stuff...

Yeah, it's proper in it, yeah.

The Taking's really good, yeah.

Bring Me the Horizon Sempiternal.

Yeah.

Oh, good God.

It's just...

He did Repent...

I didn't...

Yeah, he did Repentless, Slayer's Repentless in 2015.

It's mad.

This guy hasn't stopped, has he?

No.

And then he did the 20th anniversary of Reinventing the Steel from Pantera.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's interesting, isn't it?

Because he's not like a one-trick pony.

No.

He doesn't just batter the same things out.

But yeah, he's...

Yeah.

There's something in him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Proper mega.

Proper mega.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As producers go, he's possibly one of my favourites, I think.

Yeah.

Terry Date.

Yeah.

Very, very good.

While we're talking about that kind of thing, shall we talk about the Maverick...

The record label.

The record label.

Yes.

Because we...

I think we missed this.

We owe this a little bit, I think.

Because when we did The Prodigy...

Yeah, Fat of the Land.

We forgot to talk about this.

Was that Maverick as well?

Yeah.

Oh.

And we got in trouble.

One of our listeners said, why did you not talk about Maverick?

Oh.

And it was because I kind of forgot, basically.

You know, people don't realise this, but you can't...

We just kind of get...

Like, it's not...

It's not like a curated show.

We don't come with notes.

We just...

Well, you come with notes.

You come with a blog.

It's a blog, but yeah.

I forget, though.

And then we just start...

We start riffing and rambling on stuff.

And then before you know it, we've been doing it for an hour, and then we better shut

up.

So we didn't.

But so Maverick was an entertainment company founded in 92.

Yeah.

by Warner Music, and it was run by Madonna.

Yeah.

Now, they did all kinds of interesting stuff.

So was it to release her stuff?

Was that the idea?

Initially, she did this book called Sex.

Yeah.

She did this, like, coffee table book.

Yeah.

Weird coffee table book.

And then she did an album called Erotica.

Yeah, I remember that, yeah.

Now, what's weird is her...

I might be wrong.

I think her recording contract stayed with Warner.

It didn't move.

Yeah.

So her agreement, her records and stuff were still recorded under Warner.

Yes.

Yeah.

Now, then they did all kinds of...

She's done all kinds of stuff.

But I'm going to read through some of the things, some of the artists.

So Alanis Morissette was on Maverick.

Which album?

I can't remember.

I can't remember.

It says 94 to 2009.

So that's everything.

Oh, so quite a few.

Right.

Okay.

Wow.

Pretty much.

Bad Brains.

Baxter.

Candlebox.

Cleopatra.

Remember them?

Yeah, I do remember them.

Yeah.

Deftones.

Yeah.

Erasure.

It's quite a mix, isn't it?

It is.

Goldfinger.

They were quite funky.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember them.

Oh, Madonna was on there from 92 to 2004.

So she was on there.

Michelle Branch.

So that would have been the Ray of Light era.

Yeah.

That was my favourite, the William Orbis stuff.

So you had Madonna.

Then you had Michelle Branch.

Michelle Branch.

That was a good album.

They were the two massive ones, I think.

And then Muse was on there.

Muse?

Yeah, I always think Muse get like, I don't think they get the credit they deserve.

I think we might need to do one of their albums, you know.

They're massive.

Yeah, like Original Symmetry or one of those sort of things.

You know, if you're kind of a rocker and you're a metal-er and you think, oh, Muse

are rubbish, go and listen to a Muse album.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They've got some proper, proper banging riffs there.

Yeah.

Paul Oakenfold was on there.

The Prodigy, we've talked about before.

And William Orbis.

Yeah.

We've talked about before.

Yeah.

There was all kinds of stuff going on there.

Now, where it gets interesting, I think, is it kind of fell apart.

So by the early 2000s, like in the 90s.

Yeah.

But bear in mind this, what did it say?

Well, there was loads of money in the 90s for music, wasn't there?

Yeah, 92.

So 99 was the peak of CD sales.

Yes.

And then Napster started.

Yeah.

And then all of you horrible people just streamed everything with your viruses and your Lime

wires and your Napsters, right?

And people stopped buying CDs.

Yeah.

So the music industry struggled to figure out how to make money from it.

And there was a massive commercial fight, legal fight between Maverick and Warner, where

Maverick claimed that Warner mismanaged their finances.

Right.

And Warner claimed that Maverick mismanaged their finances.

Yeah.

And it went through the courts and it was for millions.

And eventually Warner bought the final shares and kind of shuttered it.

Right.

But interestingly, Madonna's involvement switched back to Warner.

Right.

So I kind of thought that her...

So it was almost like a subsidiary.

Yeah.

Like her releases.

They put a load of stuff out of things.

I thought her releases stayed with Warner, but maybe not.

But an interesting label, I think.

It's very eclectic.

It is, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's kind of not...

You know, if you're looking down that list, it's not like...

You remember like Earache.

I love Earache.

They're one of my favourite labels.

Yeah.

You kind of know what you're getting.

You know, Def Jam.

Yeah.

Like Def Jam did rap and thrash.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you kind of...

You know what I mean?

You kind of...

You semi-knew what you were going to get from them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like Roadrunner as well.

Yeah.

There were a bunch of these labels, I think, that did...

You know, you kind of...

Earache.

In the 90s, in the early 90s, if Earache put an album out there, I'd have just bought

it.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have even...

Yeah.

That's mine.

I'm having that.

Yeah.

But this wasn't like...

You know, Maverick was...

It was all over.

It was, you know, it was, I guess, an arty label.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It wasn't trend.

It doesn't...

You have a hard time saying it was trend-driven.

You know?

It was giving artists freedom, I guess, to...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

To do whatever they needed to.

Yeah.

Which, harking back to the Deftones thing, is let them get on with it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And do their thing and then put it out.

Yeah, I think so.

I think...

Yeah, I don't know.

I think, like, some bands need nudging from a record label.

You know when we did Definitely Maybe from Oasis?

Yes.

Oh, yeah, and that needed a few goes at it, didn't it?

That was recut completely, because the record label were like, this isn't right.

Yeah.

You know?

But the band were like, yeah, it's a good enough time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think if they hadn't have had a good label, I'm not sure whether Definitely Maybe would

have been quite as good.

I mean, for me, that's the...

I love that record, Definitely Maybe.

I'm not such a big fan of What's the Story?

But no, I mean, it's not the songs, I don't think.

I think the production is a little bit different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They don't feel like a rock and roll band on Definitely Maybe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I watched the story, the production had gone a little bit more, I don't know, a bit

smoother, maybe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

There's something that's not quite to my taste on there.

Well, that was from the label.

But then you get the impression that the label get involved in some stuff and ruin it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They start interfering.

Yeah.

Like, can you imagine a record label getting involved with Pink Floyd or...

Like, you'd just be like, you know what I mean?

Got your singles, lads.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can you go and do it?

Go and do it, yeah.

Three minute single, please, boys.

That's what we'd like.

Shall we do some facts?

Let's do some facts.

I thought ahead this week and I created a table in the blog, at the bottom of the blog, called

Facts.

I have to say, the blog this week, I mean, the blog over the last few weeks has been amazing,

but this one, in particular this week, I was looking at it going, this is brilliant.

It's brilliant!

It's brilliant.

Absolutely awesome.

And you've credited Neil's Facts as well.

I have put Neil's Table of Facts at the bottom so I know where it is.

So, released on 20th June 2000.

If you think it wasn't released on 20th June 2000, go and tell somebody who cares.

That's what Wikipedia says.

It was released through Maverick Records.

It was recorded August to December 99 at Larrabee in West Hollywood and the plant in Sausalito.

Nice.

Oh, I think that's a brilliant book.

If I move to America, I want to live in Sausalito.

Yeah.

Produced by Terry Date, who we've established is awesome, and The Deftones.

It's the first album with Frank Delgado as a full-time member.

Like you said, he had a big impact.

Yeah, it changed.

It really did.

It really changed it.

We talked about this before with Anthrax and with John Bush.

Yes.

The sound changing.

Yeah.

He had a lower voice than previously, right?

So, Joey Belladonna's voice is quite high-pitched.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Bush is much lower.

So, they changed their tone, became more thick and grungy.

Yeah.

I think Frank Delgado...

Had a similar sort of thing.

Yeah, it was...

Just changed the substance a little bit.

Big change, wasn't it?

Chino Moreno adds rhythm through the record.

There was a big shift in style.

So, it became very atmospheric, but also experimentation.

That's the bit I like about it.

And at the time, I wasn't sure.

Yeah.

Like, even hearing what Radiohead were doing around that area and that sort of stuff.

Because I was a bit like, oh, I don't know.

It's a bit weird, isn't it?

And then you listen to it back now and go, oh, no, it's genius.

It's genius.

It's absolutely brilliant.

And that's why this album, you know, really pushed it.

It's kind of got, like, early kind of trip-up and shoegaze to it.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Which probably didn't have a name at the point that they did it.

Yeah.

But I think it's interesting.

They were famously, like, they famously fought against being lumped in with the other new metal bands.

And I think it hurt.

A lot of the press wanted us to, you know, obviously they put us in the category.

And our first instinct was just to kind of push it away, you know, because to me it was like, when they called it new metal, for one, I was like, well, if it's new, you're calling it, you're putting the word new in it.

It's going to be old, like, you know, in a couple of years.

And then again, it's hard for us to get a, you know, you look at these other bands and, you know, there's some great bands in that, I guess, in that movement or whatever it was.

But each to each was his own, you know what I mean?

I always felt like we were our own kind of thing.

And we weren't put together under any kind of preconceived thoughts of what we were going to be.

We just are who we are.

So I wanted to be Deftones.

I didn't want to be, you know, a part of all this other thing, you know what I mean?

I watched you change

Into a fly

It's like you never had words

Are you a fool

So I lied

I watched you change

I took you home

Set you on the glass

I watched you on the glass and you're a fool

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

It's like you never had words

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

It's like you never have word in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

It's like you never had words

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

It's like you never had words

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

I watched you change in you

How you feel so alive, I want you change.

How you feel alive, you feel alive, you feel alive.

You feel alive, I want you change.

How you feel alive, I want you change.

How you feel alive, you feel alive.

How you feel alive, you feel alive, you feel alive.

You feel alive, you feel alive, you feel alive.

How you feel alive, you feel alive.

We did a lot and I think we hurt a lot of feelings in the meantime because we turned down so much stuff with Korn and Limp Bizkit at the time.

I don't think a lot of people knew that, but they're our friends, obviously we've known them for a lot of years.

And they'd ask us, "Hey, you want to go on tour?"

And they'd be like, "Nah."

And it wasn't because we thought we were better, but it's just that we wanted to...

Especially, for instance, when our record first came out, "Adrenaline" came out, Korn's first record was already out for like a year, I think.

Whatever, right?

So, people were calling us like "Baby Corn" when we first came out, you know what I mean?

And I was like boggled by that, you know what I mean?

And right away, you know, that made me just like want to separate myself even from them more, you know?

So, it was kind of tough back then.

Now, I don't really care.

They didn't see themselves as part of that scene, whereas kind of everybody else did.

You were kind of an alt metal band in the 2000s, you were nu metal.

And so, they were invited on some massive tours and turned them down because they didn't want to be out there playing with Limp Bizkit or with Slipknot or whatever.

They were their own thing, they didn't want to be associated with that.

And it's interesting because I think they were mates with everybody.

They were good mates with everybody, but musically, they didn't feel like they were part of that, which I think is really, really interesting.

The first single was "Change in the House of Blyes".

"Elite" won the 2001 Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance.

"Passenger" features guest vocals by Maynard James Keenan of "Tool" and "Perfect Circle".

Oh!

Yeah, you know.

Yes.

And then "Knife Party".

Bit of foreshadowing there, bit of foreshadowing.

"Knife Party" includes vocals by Rodline Getzik.

The original track, the original album featured 11 tracks with "Fetissiera" and closed with "Pink Maggot".

And then we had the "Mini Maggot".

So, the later reissues had started with "Back to School Mini Maggot" as track one.

Which kind of became the thing, didn't it?

That sort of became the...

It was a label decision.

The band hated it, apparently.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

Didn't want to do it.

But it made the album...

It did do something for them in terms of, you know, the mainstream audience kind of got that song.

They got under their skin a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did.

And there were limited editions with "The Boys Republic" on as well.

Which I think is interesting.

Yeah.

The track "White Pony" carries lots of different meanings.

You know, dream symbolism, personal freedom and slang for cocaine.

The "Pony" silhouette artwork was...

Very iconic.

Yeah, it was chosen to, like, symbol independence.

The bit that's interesting about the artwork is that there's...

I was gonna do a piece for the blog offering if there's different album covers.

I'll do a piece and say, you know, here are the different versions of it.

Yes, yeah.

I mean, good luck to anybody who wants to do that for this album.

There's so many.

There's tons of them.

I hadn't realized how many reissues there were.

Yeah, yeah.

There's millions.

Yeah.

Millions of, like, special editions, anniversary editions.

They've all got a slightly...

They're all recognizable "White Pony".

Yes.

But they're all different iterations, which I think is...

Yeah, I don't know.

It's special in itself, I think.

Debuted at number three on the US billboard.

Yeah.

178,000 first week sales.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is bonkers.

Yeah.

Absolutely bonkers.

Given...

I mean, this is the absolute peak of CD sales.

You would not get anything like that.

Certified multi-platinum in the US.

Yes.

And it was certified in the UK and Canada and Australia as well.

This was the first album where Moreno moved out of pure autobiographical lyrics.

Yes.

So there's, like, cinematic storytelling.

There's kind of...

Yeah.

A flow and a story to it, which didn't happen in previous work.

And then the reissues, like I talked about before, there's...

I mean, there's billions of reissues of this.

I think there's, like...

I mean, honestly, it's crazy.

If you go into Discogs and look at this one...

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, um...

Yeah.

It's like the polar opposite of a, like, superstar car one.

Yeah.

Where there's, like, one version.

One version.

And it's a million pounds.

One copy of it that was ever released.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And no one's ever...

No one ever sells it.

So, you know, talking about albums, I...

Going off piece a little bit of an effect.

That's not like us.

No.

I saw online...

I was just browsing through Facebook Marketplace.

I love Facebook Marketplace.

It's brilliant.

Absolutely.

You see everything on there from, like, you know, slightly used dildos to, like, a forklift

truck to...

Do you know what I mean?

It's like the middle I live.

That oldie, isn't it?

It's just mad.

You're like...

You're scrolling through and you're like, "What is that?"

And you're like, "Oh, is that?"

And then...

But then there'll be, like, a lot of coffee machines, forklift trucks, lasers.

It's like...

Oh, it's mad.

And...

But anyway, I was scrolling through and I saw what looks to me like to be a first...

First...

Very early pressing of Dark Side of the Moon.

Wow.

And I thought, "There's no way that's legit.

There's no way that's real."

So I messaged the guy and he's like, "Oh, I'll add some more pictures of it."

Yeah, yeah.

He's still up for 35 quid.

Wow.

And I thought, "Oh, fair enough."

Anyway, then...

So he puts more pictures up.

Yeah.

And...

And it's like...

And I'm not a collector, but you recognise certain records and you think this is like,

I'm really early.

This is like, you know, hundreds of pounds worth of vinyl.

And he missed one.

There's like these...

He did the run out of side A, which all looked like it was kind of, you know, really early

pressing.

Yeah, yeah.

So I messaged him back and said, "Can you show me the run out of side two?"

Yeah.

And then he didn't get back to me.

Right.

And just removed some of these pictures.

Oh, God.

So like, some of the pictures are there.

And it's all getting a little bit...

Yeah.

Like, do you know what I mean?

It's a bit...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I don't know, why would somebody do that?

Yeah, that's weird, isn't it?

If that was you, you're weird.

Proper weird.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lizzie said, "He's probably just lonely."

Just wants to chat to people.

There we go, then.

It is.

And do you know, it's interesting, because she said it, and I thought, "Oh, yeah."

Yeah, probably, yeah.

Yeah, if I lived on my own, I'd totally, totally do that.

So that's why people are mean to each other online.

Oh, no.

Well, the thing is...

They're lonely.

My friend has just started dating.

He's in his 50s.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he says, "It's horrible."

Yeah.

He said, "It's really sorry."

He said, "It's like, so you start chatting to somebody."

Yeah.

"And you think, oh, you know, this is going really, really well."

And then they're just completely blanky, so they just ignore you forever.

You know, you just don't...

You know, you have like three or four days where you talk to them every day, and then...

Nothing.

Yeah, nothing.

I'm like, oh, you can see him getting a little bit sad.

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe what he should be doing is taking, is like putting fake pictures.

Yeah, the dark side of the moon.

The dark side of the moon.

Yeah, get your favourite album.

Yeah.

Put like fake copies of like early...

Yeah.

I mean, you're only going to get like vinyl weirdos messy, aren't you?

Yeah, that'd be good.

That'd be great.

And they'll talk to you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They'll be like, yeah, alright.

Yeah.

Good album, innit?

I can't imagine that.

Where'd you meet?

Facebook Marketplace.

I was looking for dildos and the welder.

And I knew he was lonely because...

Yeah.

He wouldn't show me the runoff off side B.

No, yeah.

I knew he was lonely, yeah.

Yeah.

And there we go.

Proper bizarre.

Soulmates.

Yeah.

Do you know what?

There's something really cool about it.

I can imagine like once I've retired, I was sitting lonely at home in my rocking chair, looking

at Facebook Marketplace.

It's just brilliant.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're bored or you're a bit lonely, just get on Facebook Marketplace.

Get on it.

It's brilliant if you want to find anything.

Yeah.

Find like, I don't know, like an old mini, a welder.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A welder that also is a cheese grater.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've got to have one of those.

Cheese weld.

There's just so much.

Do you know, it's also, I get, that's where I get the best ads from like Timo and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, cause like your mates will send you like bizarre stuff.

You know, like if you've got mates who send you weird memes.

Yeah.

I don't know what you're talking about.

And then, and then the algorithm thinks that's what you like.

So it shows you pictures of like men dressed in.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

You know the weird stuff.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And yeah, you see those ads and I like that too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's why I keep getting weird ads then.

Is it?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

That makes sense now.

Some of yours are really weird.

I've seen some of yours.

Some of yours are really weird.

It's like that toilet.

One I keep getting is like this furry cover.

Yeah.

For the toilet.

For the toilet.

So you literally like, it's like a fitted toilet cover.

Yeah.

And it's like red and white and it's furry.

I just keep looking and thinking, what?

But the thing is, I think because the algorithm.

Yeah.

Like, you know, when it, it like, it shows it to you.

Yeah.

I can't, I can't not look at it.

Yeah, that's it.

No.

It's like, oh, you know what I mean?

He's weird.

These are furry toilets.

I'll keep showing him that.

I'll keep showing him that.

I'll keep showing him that.

And then it shows you like the men's like, like, you know, like kind of plastic PVC.

Yeah.

with holes with like anus holes and it's like oh god just stop showing me that but because it's

weird yeah you know i'm scrolling down i'm scrolling down i'm seeing like you know i can

pick up some patio slabs or i can get a wardrobe or you know i'll get some lego or whatever and

then you see a picture like a you're like a man in a gimp suit with an anus hole in there you stop

and you're just like what's that yeah and then facebook's like you really like that

i'll show you more of that yeah i'm gonna totally give you some more of that and that's what you get

i saw that i saw a brilliant one the other day with a man selling gnomes yeah yeah loads of gnomes yeah

he didn't want any money for them no just come and collect them and get the gnomes there's got to be

a story isn't there yeah yeah you don't he had like 20 gnomes yeah you don't get 20 gnomes without

a story rehome a gnome oh my god yeah yeah i think we've peaked i think we've peaked with uh rehome a

gnome i don't think it gets much better than that now so shall we listen to a song and then talk about

next week yeah yeah teenage is my favorite on this one and that's what i put on now i like it

yeah you do yeah it's lovely actually it's um yeah this is a like for the for the time

this stands out and like it's interesting like i think it stands out now yes yeah i i could imagine

if if i'd have um listened to this album we are on release this this is the one that would have

would have stood out i think it there's a um like you say it's meditative almost it's got this kind of

um it's got this kind of t-shirt design isn't it yeah meditative it it it has this it pulls you in

yeah it like some you know some songs kind some songs make you want to get up and you know tip your

wheelie bin over some songs kind you know some songs make you give the energy to get up and do

something yeah yeah yeah this like pulls you into like this other world yeah it's amazing

i climbed your arms

and you pull away the cavity move to my heart to me the more she sings the more it seems now

now now i'm through with the new you now i'm through with the new you now i'm through with the new you now

I drove you home, then you moved away. A new cavity moved into my heart today. The more I scream, I'm sorry.

The more it seems. Now, I'm through. Now, I'm through. With my new you. Now, I'm through.

Now, I'm through. With my new you. Now, I'm through. With my new you.

Yes, yes, yes. I'm a big fan of that. It's lovely, isn't it? Yeah, it's my favourite.

Imagine the confidence you need to have to do. Particularly when people are telling you

you're new metal. Yeah, you could go and do some singles like Limp Bizkit. Yeah. No, I have

this. Yeah, all that. Isn't that good Charlotte? Yes. There's all these kind of big brash, but

they were great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is so. It's a bit like Stephen Wilson. Yeah.

has infiltrated new metal. Yeah. I'm not sure about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such a cool

album. It totally is. I'm really glad we had a chance to do it. Yeah, no, I agree. I totally

agree. What should we do next? Next week. You've already foreshadowed this. I have. Do you know

what I want to do? Because we decided this before we even start. Well, kind of. You decided

about halfway through? Kind of. Yeah, I think. Yeah. So it was. So I think we should do

a perfect circle. Yeah. Medinoms. Yeah. And then I think we should do a tool album. Yeah.

I love tools. That's two weeks in planning in advance. Yeah. We won't. Yeah. Well, maybe

we'll do that. That's what I'd like right now. That's what I've really loved to do. Lateralus,

whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one in it. Yeah. We'll figure something out

next week. All of that stuff. I think this is another area of music that I've come to love

more. Like I liked Tool when they were released. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I liked Perfect Circle

when it was released. I remember Medinoms was released like on New Year's Day, I think. And

I remember working. The Millennium. Yeah. Which means we can do it. Do you know, I was. We'll

talk about this again next week. This is brilliant. I remember working the Millennium. And because

I was in IT and we had to go and make sure that the world didn't end. Thank you. The Millennium

book. You're welcome. So we had to do all of that. Mostly it involved dicking about in the

dark. I work for a bank. So we were. We were doing. We played a game where we basically threw

a frisbee. Imagine a big office. Yeah. It normally has 800 people in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

we were trying to throw a frisbee from one end to the other end. Yes. For about four hours.

Nothing happened. And anyway, I just remember we were there doing this stuff and everybody

there were like four or five of us or whatever. Yeah. Some, you know, senior manager came around

at like one o'clock in the morning with a pizza, like a manky pizza. Yeah. Thanks for

staying. I'm going now. Brilliant. You know. Thanks. Yeah. And anyway, so we were doing that

and we had a security guy who did a walk around a pass, if you like, every couple of hours just

to make sure that the building wasn't on fire and we weren't being built or whatever. Anyway,

so we're all there and we're all getting a little bit delirious by this point. And I'd kind of

like all of my stuff by four o'clock, all of my tests were done. And I was like, just

like, I think I was like face down on the table, just thinking, I just want to go home now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all I remember is my, my mate was mucking around with, with VPNs at

the time and he'd managed to get this like bizarre like TV program, like European TV program.

And so he was watching and everyone was kind of crowding around going, oh, it's great.

And the next program started. Yeah. And it was essentially girls shooting ping pong balls

out of their downstairs. And it was like a, like a, it was a contest to see who could shoot

the furthest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. And it was, I just remember like everybody

gathered around this, like this monitor and then, and then the security guy walked around

the corner and he could see, you know, he was kind of looking at what we were doing and it's

just like, oh my God, just how much trouble are we going to get in? Like, how do you explain

Yeah. You know, German weird board ping pong balls. It was the Millennium Bugs fault, wasn't

it? It was. Millennium Bugs fault. Millennium hate came and then that happened. I just, it

was, it was such a bizarre, so we got paid a fortune for it as well. We got paid an absolute

fortune to be there. And we all knew nothing was going to go, we're like, we've already, you

know, it's all fine. Yeah. And then I remember just getting home and just like going to sleep

and like, it was just bizarre. And then there are memories that are like, did I, is that

real? Yes. Do you know what I mean? Is that actually real? But I remember like, it was about

a week or so. Remember, it was Kerrang Radio. So I remember like a week or so later hearing

singles off Mad and Om's on Kerrang. So you have that association. Yeah. Yeah. Ping pong

balls. Do you know the only thing that didn't work? It was a printer. We had to go, we had

to go and, and we, and we had to switch it. They never work anyway. We had to switch it

off and back on again. It was like, it was like five of us. We've got nothing to do. And

we were like, oh, the printer's not, it didn't roll, the date didn't roll over. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So we're like, what are we going to do? And then someone was like, well, shall we switch

it off and back on again? Yeah. All right. Yeah. All right. So we, yeah, we literally switched

it off, switched it back on again and it came back up and it was fine. There we go. And that

was, that was, that was, that was in the, that was the only thing we had to write in

the log. Is that good? There we go. Oh, and if it was, if you worked in a bank, you came

in afterwards and there was coffee all over your monitor and your thing, that was our Frisbee.

Somebody launched, we were trying, we were trying to skim the Frisbee over the, over the, over

the desks. Yeah. And somebody did it really badly. Yeah. And you know, sometimes you leave

a coffee, somebody had got a, you know those crappy plastic cups? Yes, I do. The vending

machine cups. Somebody had left like a two thirds full one of those. Yeah. And the Frisbee

had, you know. Yeah. Come into contact with it and it like exploded and launched cold, manky

coffee everywhere. So we tried to clean it with toilet paper. But it didn't quite work out.

No. So then we just went home and we thought, well, no one will notice. And they never did.

No, no. It's like 25 years later now. So yeah, there we go. There it is.

I think you're fine. I think you're going to jail for that now. I'll go to heaven now.

Confession. That's my confession. So next week, Med Noms. Yeah. I hope you've enjoyed the show.

Yeah. Subscribe, follow. I don't know. I don't know how you can do those things.

Like stars, review. Yeah, do those things.

Solo. Tell your mates. Yeah. Tell your mates is a good one. That one actually does work.

Yeah. Yeah. Share us with your friends. Yeah. Yeah. Say, these guys are weird.

I don't know how you would describe us. How would you describe us?

I don't know. We had a review, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah.

Who said, who did describe us well? Yeah.

Chat GPT. Yeah.

Describes the show as accidental and chaotic.

I think that's a great description.

No, it was accidentally insightful. That's what it said.

Is that an insult? That's great.

Have we just been insulted by chat GPT?

No, that's great. Well, that's brilliant.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. Sorry.

I think I'm going to be insulted by chat GPT.

Right, shall we bug off? Yeah.

See you next week. Love you, bye.

Can we do love you, bye? No.

What is it now?

I do. You just did it. So that's it.

Say whatever you want.

See ya.

See ya.