RIFF065 - Def Tones - White Pony
S2025:E34

RIFF065 - Def Tones - White Pony

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Episode description

Riffology — Deftones: White Pony (2000)

TL;DR: Deftones dodged the nu-metal pigeonhole and built a shimmering, heavy, cinematic classic. We get into label shenanigans (hi, Maverick/Madonna), the Back to School (Mini Maggit) detour, Terry Date’s drum-forward production, the Maynard cameo on “Passenger,” and why “Change” became the gateway track.

What you’ll hear

  • Not-your-average “nu-metal”: Shoegaze, trip-hop and The Cure vibes layered over drop-tuned heft; more atmosphere than chest-beating.

  • Label politics, neatly messy: Maverick (Madonna’s imprint) largely hands-off… until the “we need another single” moment that birthed Back to School.

  • Production that breathes: Terry Date’s snappy, musical drums and space in the mix—no brickwall mud, plenty of tension-and-release.

  • Lyrics level-up: Moreno moves from diary pages to cinematic vignettes; White Pony flows like a film.

  • Iconography & editions: The pony logo minimalism, colour-way sleeves, and a Discogs rabbit hole of reissues collectors love (and fear).

  • Receipts: Debuted #3 on Billboard, ~178k first-week, multi-platinum in the US; certified in the UK/Canada/Australia. Not bad for something that refuses easy labels.

Big ideas

  • Heaviness ≠ volume: Dynamics, negative space, and melody do more work than an extra pedal.
  • Art vs. algorithm: When a band follows instinct, the “single” sometimes follows later—and sometimes shouldn’t.
  • Timelessness comes from texture: Guitars bite, vocals haunt, drums speak; that’s why it still feels modern.

Nerdery notes

  • “Knife Prty” = sinister romance with a chorus you will unfortunately sing in public (“Come get your knife… now kiss me”).
  • “Passenger” brings Maynard James Keenan’s velvet menace; perfect call-and-response with Chino.
  • “Change (In the House of Flies)” is the hinge: a lesson in restraint, build, and payoff.

Chapters

  • 00:00 Intro & warm-up banter
  • 04:21 Artwork, reissues & that pony logo
  • 05:03 Deftones vs. the “nu-metal” tag
  • 08:31 Back to School (Mini Maggit) saga
  • 10:28 Maverick & Madonna—label context
  • 30:51 “Knife Prty” (sing-along and chills)
  • 36:05 Terry Date & the drum sound
  • 46:02 Facts section (release, sales, legacy)
  • 55:16 “Passenger” with Maynard

If you only have 3 tracks today

“Change (In the House of Flies)” • “Passenger” • “Knife Prty”

One-line pitch: White Pony is where Deftones stopped being compared—and started being copied.

Listen & follow