RIFF063 - Anthrax - Persistence of Time

They're gonna put me in jail, man I'm already in jail

Don't they know that my life just won't excel

Rippology

Hello

The thing is, tonight, it's Sunday night, which is the night before we're actually going to unleash this on the world

It's kind of gone a bit off-kilter, hasn't it?

Yeah

The night started without the obligatory Coke Zero and Red and Black Fruit Pastel

I mean, it was an absolute disaster

We span into the studio, realised that we needed Coke Zero and Fruit Pastels

We took a left-hand turn into the garage, where we normally go and get these things from

And it was only coned off with a big van delivering fuel

I don't need that, I've got an electric car, don't care

But we couldn't get in, and so we had to go and do

I'll say that, I've got a petrol car as well now

Yeah

I keep forgetting that

So we had to go to Sainsbury's, and we've talked about the disaster that is Sainsbury's in the past

We don't sell Red and Black Fruit Pastels

Do you think there's not enough people listening to this yet to make that change, is there?

I don't know

Mr. Sainsbury, if you're listening

So what we ended up getting was normal Fruit Pastels

We have, yeah

Because we wanted a more intense flavour, we actually went for the Fizzy Sour Skittles as well

They're called Crazy Sours Skittles, and they're in like an illuminous green packet

But now because of that, because they're so intense

They are intense

The initial Fruit Pastels, the green packet of Fruit Pastels, are actually quite bland in comparison

That's true, although when we first came in, you popped the top off, stuck five in your face

And then proceeded to cough your insides out, didn't you?

I thought it was great

I was like, I'll just not have five of those, I'll make have one

This is Riffology

Hello

Hello, we are a weekly podcast

You're Neil

I'm Neil

I'm Chris

Yes, you're Chris

We do an album

We do

We dive in, do a deep dive on an album

We find out all about it

There is a blog at riffology.co

Yep

Which is massive now

Massive

Loads of people looking at it

It is, lots of people

Loads of people listening to the podcast

Yeah, we get caught people comment on the blog

Tell me what I've got wrong

Why do people do that?

Not that you shouldn't do that

Obviously, if someone's made a mistake, then you should tell them that

But no one ever goes, this is brilliant

I love this

We've had a few

We've probably had, I don't know

Probably out of, let's say we've had like 200 comments on blog articles

Yeah

I reckon 10 have been, wow

Total blast from the past

I love this album

Yeah

Totally reminded me of it

Yeah, thank you so much

Absolutely awesome

Thank you

That's it

It made me go back and re-listen to it again

You know, it reminded me of my youth and stuff like that

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

Yeah

And you think, oh, that's brilliant

All of the others

I think you'll find

Yeah

It was February the 2nd, not February the 1st

It's just all that

Actually, it's that voice, isn't it?

It is, yeah

And it's nice

Because I think, you know, they obviously educate me

Yeah, yeah, yeah

And I like it

But it's

Yeah, but you're not going to listen, are you?

I do change, I do edit them

Oh, do you actually?

I edit them and then go

Actually, I wouldn't do it out of principle

I do, I edit them and then I kind of go

I think you're fine

No, I don't do that

I don't

But thank you, everybody, for the blog

That's good

And socials are really good

People are really, really digging the socials

We do competitions and guessing album covers and stuff

Yeah

On the socials, which has been a lot of fun

I quite like those

They're quite good fun

Yeah, it's been good

We've been enjoying ourselves, really, lately

This week, we're doing The Anthrax, Persistence of Time

Which is one of my most favourite albums

Yeah, yeah, which changes on a weekly basis

Yeah

Which is also why you can't have a tattoo

It is why I can't have a tattoo

It is, that's true

Some of my most favourite albums

I remember the weight of them

Yeah

Is by how long I wore the t-shirt for

Does that make sense?

Right, yeah, yeah

So there was this one, which I had the t-shirt for

I had two t-shirts of this one

Yeah

And the cover, you know, the print

Went a bit flaky

Yeah, yeah

So I had to get another one

I think it was

I think it might have been a

You know, not a real one

Yeah

But the front thing, it came off

And then I got a proper one

And there was State of Euphoria before it

I had that

I loved that t-shirt

Yeah

The album we did

We did Soulfly last week

And then before that we did Beneath the Remains

I had a t-shirt of that

And I wore that until the arms fell off

So I wore it until it went grey

Then I dyed it black again

Yeah

Then I wore it until the arms fell off

And then I bought another one

Yeah, I mean that's commitment, isn't it?

I did, I love that one

But this, I

But then they look a bit better when they're a bit worn, I think

Yeah

I like it, I like it with Soulfade

Yeah, vintage

Vintage

But this was like

Road worn

1990

I was 16

And I didn't have a great deal of cash, to be fair

No

And so that's what you did

Yeah, yeah, yeah

You know, you would, you know, you would dye things and do whatever you could do

And it wasn't like you had a lot of, you know, I might have had like four or five like t-shirts

So there was a lot of rotation, you know, you would wear them

Yeah, yeah, yeah

But yeah, this was a, this was a big one for me

Yeah, yeah

Because of time

I liked the change in Anthrax at this point

Yeah, because there were that lo-fi-y kind of thrash kind of

Yeah

Thing

Because it was in 84 there

They were quite

Yeah, mid-80s

They were

They were a way in, weren't they, when they did this one

Yeah, so they were like power metal, I guess, when they started

Then they kind of went into the bit thrashy

And then, like the big breakout was Among the Living

That, that was massive

That got, like, that was all over MTV

And this other one was before this, the one before this

No, State of Euphoria was

Oh, State of Euphoria

State of Euphoria was before this

And then Among the Living was, was before that

Before that, okay

Everyone, like, you're, you're, you're elders, elders

You know, they're kind of elders, thrash elders

Among the Living, that was that, they liked that one

Fire happened

The fire happened during that record

Yeah

We lost a lot of our equipment

Maybe that's why that record is dark

But actually it's dark because we came off the State of Euphoria

Which was very happy

We were, I mean, in our career

We were just the happiest we've ever been

So I guess it was normal to be

Have this, you know, State of Euphoria

And then some people just wanted to take that away from us

Gave us, you know, this backlash and stuff

And I think Persistence of Time was the result

Persistence of Time, to me, has more in common with Sound of White Noise

Than it does, certainly, in State of Euphoria

Like, it would have made more sense as a follow-up to Among the Living

But if you listen to Musically, if you listen to the music on Persistence of Time

It's definitely closer to Sound of White Noise than it is to the record that came before it

Than Euphoria

And so you could kind of see where we were going

You know, we had made it

We had done something that, who gets to do that?

You know, like by that point, we broke

We were a band that was selling out multiple nights in places

You know, we were worth seven, eight thousand tickets

And we had made it

We were selling gold albums

The whole thing

Everything you dream about

When you're trying to make a band happen

And we were doing it

And then at the same time as all that's going on

Is there's this whole ugly side of the business too

Whether it's the business part of it

Or, you know, or just then trying to keep a band together

When everyone's focuses really kind of start to change

When all of a sudden success becomes a part of the equation

That's something you've never had to deal with before

And then as well as

Not so much here in the States at the time

But certainly overseas, they had a way of building bands up

And then tearing them right back down

That was kind of like the MO back in the 80s

With a lot of bands

And they tried hard with us

It didn't work

But they tried

And, but, you know, I just think

We just had more to deal with

Than we'd ever had to deal with before

You know, mentally

And all of that went into that record

It's just, everything changed

You know, you start a band

And it's fun

Okay, and then at some point

Business

Takes a hold of you

And then you have pressure

To follow up your last record

With a better record

And did they make the right record?

Well, I don't think they did

But they think they made the right record

You know, it's that type of thing

It really fucks with your head

Thank God, you know, we had A&R back then

To maybe talk about what you can do

And, you know, but for the most part

We were very, I don't know

It was, this is a close group

And we know what we're doing

Let us do it this way

Type of thing, you know

I think so much of that record holds up

For me, of that era of Anthrax

From Fistful through Persistence

That's my second favourite album

Among and then Persistence

And we did some really good shows

It was like good tours on that

That whole run, you know

It was good

Because aren't Anthrax one of the big four?

They are

They are

They're very divisive

I would say

Right

The, A, the big four is quite divisive

Yeah

And that people disagree with who should be in it

So you always end up with like

Oh, Anthrax shouldn't have been in there

It should have been Testament

Should have been Exodus

Right, right, right

Should have been Overkill

Whatever

But it was done at the time

That they did it on the four

Bands with the

The thrash bands

Yeah

That sold the most

So that was Slayer

Yeah, it was Slayer

Anthrax

Anthrax

Megadeth

And Metallica

Oh, okay, right

Yeah, yeah

And it's interesting because

I think

Anthrax never really fitted particularly well

If you look at the others

They

Anthrax were always quite

Light-hearted, I would say

Yeah, yeah

So Euphoria particularly

Was quite a happy

Quite a fun album

It was, you know

It was upbeat

I would say

It was kind of a bit

You certainly get that from the

From the interviews

Like they're up for a good time

Aren't they?

Particularly the early

The early start

It was

I mean there were major chords

Yeah

For a thrash record

Do you know what I mean?

You're not used to

It's all down-tuned

And, you know

That was pretty upbeat

It had like Antisocial on it

It was a trust cover

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Super upbeat

So poppy almost

Yeah, yeah, yeah

In chord structure

It was a lovely, lovely track that they did

But they were on fire at that point

But the world reacted fairly negatively to it

Off the back of Among the Living

Which, again, was quite a fun album

But a little bit darker

You know, it was a bit more thrashy in place

State of Euphoria wasn't

And a lot of people kind of reacted a little bit

You know

This isn't what I want in my thrash albums

Yeah, yeah, yeah

You know, I kind of want

I want something different

I'm not sure I like this

So the world was a bit split

And I think Anthrax generally split opinion

Right, right, right

People either love them

Yeah

Or hate them

They're one of those bands

That, you know

People either absolutely adore them

And I think a lot of it is

Like the production

Is radically different

To the other thrash albums

Persistence of Time is written

You know, in 1989 and 1990

And like Among the Living

Was written back in 1985 and 1986

And there's just too many different things happening

Around me or in my life

So it's really

I can't compare one to the other

Because it's different

So the only

I mean the only

Besides the songs

And the songwriting

The one thing I can compare

Is production

From album to album

And by far

This is the best sounding record

We've ever had

And a lot of that

Is the vocals

Like Joey Belladonna's vocals

It's kind of

They've all got good names

Haven't they

In this band

They're all New York

Aren't they

Everyone in New York

Is like uber cool

Aren't they

And this lot

But this lot

This lot were interesting

Because almost the rest of it

Was happening on the other coast

The bay area

And so they

Yeah these guys

There were a handful of these guys

Like Overkill

I'm trying to think who else

Was down in this

This neck of the woods

But Overkill

Oh Prong were in New York as well

And these guys

There was a few others

Yeah

Also there was

There was a

Bay area contingent in San Francisco

Yeah

And a New York contingent as well

Okay

Doing similar

Doing similar sort of stuff

Yeah they were

But they had different tone

They were very different

So you got the New York tone

And you got the San Fran tone

A little bit

Yeah

There's a little bit of that

I think

And the lyrical constructs as well

Like the songs

And what they sang about

Was a little bit different

You know

They were

You can identify

That like

Kind of

Sonic difference

I think

Yeah yeah

It's full on like

East West Coast

Isn't it

Yeah

Thinking about it

It's totally the other side

It's

Yeah

I think so

And I think

This album

So Persistence of Time

For me

Was

Like

The band went

Darker

Like lyrically

Went darker

And it kind of went

A little bit more introspective

And it was a bit more grown up

Like

Matured

If that makes sense

There was a lot of like

Social justice aspects

Wasn't there

Not quite necessarily political

But

Certainly

The social justice

And the challenging of

You know

Oppressive

Kind of thought

Yeah

It's a lot of stuff about

Racism and hatred

Like H8

I mean there is some really

Strong language on the record

We don't say fuck

Basically

We don't say the word fuck

But

There's other words

In some of the songs

About racism

We have a line where

We say

Don't even try to tell me

What you think is right

When to you blacks

Are niggers

And Jews are kikes

And

I mean

That's really strong

I mean

The message behind us

Is really strong

Do you know what a funny story is

Is that I remember

There's a track called

H8 Red

Yeah

Hatred

Yeah

Yeah

Yeah

Took me probably about

10 years

To realise that

H8 Red

Was hatred

Yeah

Yeah

So that's

That's how intelligent I was

I was a maths student

I didn't do language

But

They

Yeah

It was a

It was a shift

In tone

Yeah

Yeah

But there was some

Just

There were just some

Absolute bangers

The way

This album

And was Joey Belladonna

Then

You understood

He was

Had he always been

The vocalist

No

Because they went

They had a couple

Of different vocalists

Didn't they

Yeah

So they started off

With a guy called

Neil Turbin

Yeah

I think he did

He did the first record

And then

And then Joey Belladonna

Came in

Now Joey Belladonna's

Vocals

Always remind me

Of kind of like

British heavy metal

Yeah

Yeah

Kind of

Iron Maiden

Like D.O.

Do you know what I mean

You know that kind of

Like high

Power metal

Kind of stuff

Yeah just huge range

Yeah

Which was

Almost operatic

Yeah

Which when you think

About Dave Mustaine

Yeah

Or

James Hetfield

I mean

Yeah

Not really the same

Same kettle of fish

No

Not a lot of range

Going on there

No

And so

Yeah

I mean even

I guess

Slayer

Yeah

Yeah

So

So Tom

Had quite a high register

Tom was quite high

But it was more kind of

You know

It was more screamed

Wasn't it

Yeah

Whereas Joey was

He's got a bang

And even now

He's got a banging voice

It was very

Very

Because is he back

With him now

Yes

Yeah

So he came back in 2011

For worship music

I think

Some of you will tell me

I've got that wrong

But I think he came back

This was the last record

That he did

With him on

So there's a very specific reason

We're covering this

Yes

Record

Because next week

We're giving it away now

Yeah

I want to do

Sound of White Noise

Yeah

Which is John Bush

Yes

Off of Armoured Saint

There's another band

That I absolutely adore

I love Armoured Saint

And I love John Bush

Now the John Bush record

Has got a lot of

Abuse

It's more songy isn't it

It's a bit

Yeah they went a bit

I wouldn't say grungy

But it's a bit

Kind of

Darker

A bit more like

Heavy rock

Yes

Do you know what I mean

That kind of stuff

And I really liked it

I thought they

I thought they were

Phenomenal

And

Yeah

They

They even re-recorded

Some of the tracks

Off this record

With John Bush

Right

Yeah yeah yeah

Late

Like

Not that long ago

Actually

I think it was for

One of the anniversaries

But

Yeah

It had a radical change

Yeah yeah yeah

And they seem to do

The anthrax do this

They kind of just

Like reinvent themselves

And switch and change

Yes yeah

And yeah I mean

It catches people off

Guard a little bit

Yeah yeah yeah

You know

But yeah I mean

This one is

The production's a step up

So

Persistence of time

The production is

Definitely a step up

Yeah yeah yeah

Where euphoria was

It's thicker

It's bigger

It's got that

It's got what I would

Consider that

American heavy metal sound

Yes

Whereas I'm not sure

State of euphoria did

State of euphoria was in that

It was kind of a little bit thin

Like thrashy

You know that thrashy thin sound

Yeah yeah yeah

It got almost punky sound

Yeah

Whereas this came out

With a big thick slab of

You know

In my world

Was the

Yeah yeah yeah

The big single

From this one

And got the time as well

Which was Joe Jackson

Yes

Who lives here

Yes

Where we're recording this

Swaddling coat

Yeah this is where

Joe Jackson was from

So we're allowed to talk

About that

Which was nice

We should have a statue

Of Joe Jackson

Yeah we should

We could hang a flag on him

For those that are not aware

Our compatriots across the UK

Are hanging flags on things

And we've genuinely got no idea

What's going on

But it's really nice to see the flags

It's really nice to see the flags

Yeah most are upside down

But I don't think it matters

Does it?

No

The intent's clear isn't it

Yeah yeah

Fly a flag

And I think if we had a

Joe Jackson statue

We should have a flag on him

Because he was awesome

Yeah definitely

And that track was mega

Yeah

Love the bass intro

Yeah yeah yeah yeah

So but anyway yeah

This one

Yeah lovely production

I think

Mark Dodson

Did the

Did the production on this one

Executive producers

John Zazula

And Marsha Zazula

I always thought this was recorded

At Electric Lady Studios

It was wasn't it

Do you know Electric Lady Studios

The Hendrix one

Hendrix yeah

Hendrix wanted a studio

When they did the Electric Lady sessions

Cost a bloody fortune apparently

In studio time

So he just went

Oh just get me one

Yeah so they

They turned this old

New York nightclub

Into a studio

Yeah

And apparently it was just

Abject chaos

They brought a proper acoustician

In to do the design work

Yeah

Did the work

And it flooded

And it was absolute chaos

Oh gosh

Eventually it was built

Hendrix recorded there for 10 weeks

And then died

Yeah yeah yeah

So hardly really used it

Yeah

Over the two years

Since the last album came out

I guess maybe we really felt

Time on our back

You know

Because all of a sudden

It's 1990

And you know

It was just seven years ago

You know

When this band was just starting

It doesn't seem that long ago

No way

And so time is flying

We did our last album here too

And we just liked the place

Close to home

The studio being Electric Lady

In Greenwich Village

Which Hendrix built for himself

I guess back in the late 60s

To do his records here

And for me it was more

I wanted to come here

Because I just know

Through the 70s

Kiss used to do a lot

Of their records here

So it was just a place

You would always see

Walking up and down 8th street

And you'd always see

This little doorway

And you just want to kind of

You know

Well I want to go in there

Because Kiss might be in there

Right now

So

But it's just great

And plus it's the top of the line

The control room here

The equipment

Everything's there for you

When you need it

The console they have in here

Is the only one in North America

So

This Focusrite console

I know it's kind of boring

To talk about the equipment

But

That was one thing

That made us come back

I always thought this was

Recorded there

And it wasn't

It wasn't

But it was mixed there

It was mixed there

Yeah

Yeah

And it was

It was

It was recorded

At A&M Studios

And Conway Studios

So in Hollywood

Oh wow

Okay

And then

And then was

Mixed at Electric Lady

Yeah

Yeah

I'm not sure what

Yeah I don't know

I suppose the studio

Doesn't have that much

Of an impact on the

No but I think

It would have been

About the person

Working at Electric Lady

Then

Who did the mixing

Because it wasn't

So it was mixed

By Steve Thompson

And Michael Barbario

Yeah

And then it was

Mastered by

Bob Ludwig

Yeah

Well Mark still

Engineered the album

But Thompson and

Barbario mixed it

And that made all

The difference in the world

Because it's

We've never had a problem

Recording an album

It's always been a problem

With mixing it

And getting the final mix

That we want

And Thompson and Barbario

They did the right job

Real good

I mean they're big names

In the world of

For a metal band

As well

At that time

I mean I know

Anthrax are like

A big band

But they were doing

Like U2

And stuff like that

Do you know what I mean

This would have been

Peanuts to those guys

Yeah

But yeah

It was

Yeah

And I remember

This one coming through

And just being

Blown away by it

It was one of those

You're right from the beginning

Where the kind of

Clock ticks

And then the guitar tone

Comes in

You've got like

Scott Ian's rhythm

Work on this

I think is

Just phenomenal

Absolutely

And then

As it progresses

There are bits

There are bits

That are fast

The bits that are always

Stand out to me

There were the kind

Of mid-tempo

Bits

You know

Those kind of

Yeah

It's like they keep it

In the family

And in my world

Yeah

The one for me

Was intro to reality

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

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It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

It's like they're not a big deal of shit

Yeah, it's got a lovely feel to it, this album

It's quite dynamic

It moves around a little bit

And then, yeah, they're like Blood

and Keep It In The Family as well

Which, again, I really like

Then there's some quicker stuff like Gridlock

And that's more like the older stuff, would you say?

A little bit, yeah

Yeah, they were much, I guess, more open

to embrace slower stuff on this record

So if this is 1990

Yeah

Is that Black Album '91?

Black Album '91, yeah

Had Metallica already veered in that direction?

Because all I'm thinking is

They would have been off the back of 'Unjustice'

Yeah, right, okay

So it would have been quite similar

I'm just thinking of like

Would Anthrax have been seen as the ones that kind of retained

You know, as everyone else went more kind of bigger

and sluggier and rounder in their sound

Did Anthrax sort of retain the more kind of hardcore, you know, thrash guys?

I don't know

Mind you saying that, no?

Because you said the next, yeah, the next album was a different feel

Well, what was around this time would have been like Rust In Peace

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Seasons from Slayer

Both of those two were pretty mid-tempo

They were, I mean, they were kind of verging on like heavy rock

Still had that thrashy turn to it

So everyone's taking that direction

I think so, yeah

Painkiller from Judas Priest was this year as well

Cowboys from Hell

Really? Okay, yeah

And you had like

But then there was other big stuff like

Like Death was getting really big at this point in time

Yes, yeah, yeah

Like Left Hand Path and Day Aside

Yeah, so I don't know

Like some bands were going faster

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah

But the big four thrash

Yeah

Certainly Metallica went slower

Megadeth went slower

Yeah, I just, that's what I mean

It's like how did, I wonder who set that trend off, you know?

Yeah, I don't know

It's an interesting one, isn't it?

It definitely, like in the mid 80s, it was all about speed

Yes, yeah

You know, and all of those bands were about playing as fast as they could do

And like famously Megadeth

Like Dave Mustaine wanted to play faster than Metallica

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

And it was all about how fast you could play the guitar

Yeah

Slayer were, you know, just absolutely going as fast as they possibly could do

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Anthrax never did that

They were, they were kind of in that territory

Yes

But they never ever were like extremely, you know, they never did like extreme fast stuff

Mm

But yeah, like everybody was kind of, like in that group was slowing down here

Yeah, yeah

But then you had other bands that were, that were not, they were going faster

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah

And I'm thinking a lot of Exodus as well, like Exodus and Overkill

And they were still fast, you know, they were, they were

I could, yeah, I've just got that kind of narrative in my mind where it's like

You know, as these other bands slow down and become massive kind of thing

Yeah

Who's kind of holding the torch?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Who's holding the torch for the thrashlands?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

I think it probably would have been like Exodus and stuff

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah

They were just doing Exodus album

Yeah

Bonded by blood or something

Yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

They were dead good, they, they, they were just fast

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

And it was interesting because like famously Anthrax, they talked about, I remember listening to an interview and they talked, someone was saying why do you not have a ballad on your albums?

Right, yeah, because everyone else has a ballad

And they were like, that'd be wimping out, you know, that'd be, that'd be wimping out

But actually on this one, that intro into reality

Yeah, it is kind of

Kind of got that sort of thing to it, yeah

Yeah, I mean it's not

Well I remember how even James Hetfield felt about Nothing Else Matters

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

You know, because he was quite, he was sort of like, oh I don't know, it's a bit cheesy and it's like, it's not that, that's not Metallica, it's like, but it ended up being a huge massive hit for him, so

I think that was Bob Rock, wasn't it?

Was it?

Yeah, I don't think

He talked him into it

Yeah, although Lars takes credit for it, I suspect it was, I think from the interviews it was Bob, you know, saying

He said, yeah, you should definitely record that as Metallica, I think

Yeah, have the confidence and just do it

Yeah

And it was the first time that James had sung

Yeah, yeah

You know, yeah

I mean, James famously not

Yeah, just wasn't into it, was he?

Not being confident about his voice

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah

You know, I think up to, like, Master of Puppets was referring to himself as the temporary singer, you know, and which, and we've talked about this before, but, you know, he is the sound of Metallica

Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah, totally

And to imagine that the sound of Metallica didn't think that he, I just, it's, I don't know, mind bending really, but, yeah, the other thing I want to talk about with this album

Um, and it is one of my favourite albums

Yeah

The songs were all too long

I looked at that earlier

I was listening

Because what happened was I was listening through

And I was looking at the songs

And it was like, it wasn't very far through the record

For saying how much music I'd been listening to

Yeah

And then I still looked at the track time and sort of went, how come you like this?

It's weird, isn't it?

Yeah

Because you've got six, seven minute songs

Yeah, they are

Yeah

It's mad

Like, keep it in the family, seven minutes

Yeah

In my world, six and a half

Which is, of course, almost a meatloaf intro

But it's, yeah, they're all really long

Yeah, yeah, yeah

I don't know, they don't feel long

No

To me

No, no, no, no

I suppose that's when you know he's done right though, isn't it?

When the time disappears

The persistence of time, the persistence of track times

That's what this is

Yeah

Do you know the other thing I like about this album

Is that when you hear Charlie Benante and Scott Ian talk about

Yeah

The persistence of time

Yeah

And what it means

They both give different answers

Oh, right, okay, wow

Wow

So, like, Scott Ian

And again, I think this is really cool

This is, it's worth, it's worth digging into this a little bit

Because, like, famously, Charlie often names the albums

Yes, yeah

Before there's a song

Yeah

Or

He's just got the concept

Yeah

Yeah, he's just

Or something jumps out of the universe

And he's like, that's what it's called

Yeah, yeah, yeah

He's just got this idea

A bit like, you know Megadeth named Rust in Peace

Yeah

Off a bumper sticker

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Dave Mustaine saw a bumper sticker and it said

"May all your nuclear weapons rust in peace"

Yeah

And that's where the

And he got the idea

Yeah, yeah, yeah

This concept rust in peace

And then built the album around that

Like, persistence of time

Charlie came up with the idea

Yeah, Charlie came up with the title

And then I wrote the song "Time"

And basically saying it

If something doesn't happen right away

Or if you don't have, like, some kind of overnight success

No matter what you do in life

It doesn't mean it will never happen

And if you work hard and you get out there and do something

With your life and make something of yourself

Then you'll be successful

And with just telling people

I mean, the basic message behind it is just to get off your ass

That's the basic message

That takes it down to the bottom line

And I think both Charlie and Scott had different perspectives

Yes

Although the album kind of came together

Well, I think Charlie talked about it in terms of mortality

Yeah, yeah, yeah

And you know, you're not here for a very long time

Yes, yeah

So, you know, whereas Scott Ian was very much like

You know, I mean, it's still kind of time related

But it's about, you know, getting up off your ass and doing something

Yeah, yeah, yeah

It's about, you know, making the most of the time you've got

So, I guess similar

Yes

But it's interesting that Charlie usually talks about it in terms of mortality

Yeah, yeah

And, you know, death is coming and, you know, it's coming to everybody

Timey Avenger

Yeah

As it says in our famous, world famous swaddling cloak clock

Nearly said someone else there

Oh yeah, it does, doesn't it?

Yes

Yeah

Is it world famous, our clock?

It's definitely, I know about it

Do you know the most famous thing near us that are still, I love to pieces

And that's the Barry Milner Bridge

Oh, I don't know what that is

So

Which bridge is that?

It's out near Moira

Yeah

So it's not actually in Swaddling Co

Yeah

It's maybe three miles, four miles away from where we are right now

Yeah

The one that goes near Rawdon

Pit

Yeah

Yeah

Why is that called the Barry Milner?

I love Barry Milner on it

And then, and then somebody, somebody scrubbed it out

Yeah

The council probably

Yeah

And then somebody wrote Barry Milner is thick

And then the locals have all got together

Yeah

And all registered it on Google

Oh, as the Barry Milner Bridge

As an attraction called Barry Milner Bridge

And they've all left reviews of it

And now it's on

No, you know what's going to happen now

And now it's on TripAdvisor

So

We've set up a thing

They're going to be all these guys coming over from the States just to visit the Barry Milner Bridge

And you look at it, and you look at all the reviews of it

And it's like, oh, Barry Milner Bridge is the best thing ever

Yeah

It's phenomenal

People talk about having picnics there

And it's literally a road

And it's an old railway bridge

And it's just, there's nothing

There's literally nothing there

It's just a road

Near Cyrus Wood, yeah

Yeah, yeah, it's awful

It's a grey, battleship grey bridge

That used to have Barry Milner

Yeah, I love Barry Milner on it

Yeah, and then there's this lovely thing going on

Who's Barry Milner?

Yes, yeah, yeah

And I like that

Yeah, totally

It made me want to do

You know, when I first discovered it

I thought we could do a podcast about that

Yeah

We could find who Barry Milner is

Well, we've done it now, haven't we?

Yeah

And now it's out in the world now

If you know who Barry Milner is

Yeah, yeah, get in touch

Then write it and tell us

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Or just make up a story

That would be even better

In fact, do you know what?

Make up a Barry Milner story

If you're American and you're looking for a name for your band

Yeah

Call it Barry Milner

That would be the coolest thing ever

That would be the coolest thing ever

Yeah, yeah, yeah

And nobody would like

People are going, why?

Would it be called Barry Milner?

Or would it be Barry Milner and they?

You know what I mean?

Like when the people are there?

Barry Milner and the bridge

Yeah

Barry Milner's bridge

I just think it would be brilliant

Yeah

No one would imagine like a massive

Like a Nirvana

Yeah

The massive

Yeah

Or like the Foo Fighters

Yeah

And called Barry Milner

And the press going, why are you called Barry Milner?

Oh, it's a bridge in Swaddling Coat

And then like a thousand people going to the bridge

Yep

Oh, that's great

In the future when the aliens get to the podcasts

It'll actually be a heritage site

It would be an important landmark of human civilization

We need to go and pay homage to the bridge

We should take a bit

I'm going to try and take a bit

On our socials

I'm going to try and find a picture of the bridge

Yeah, and put it on

Yeah, because it's brilliant

I used to live there

I used to drive under that every day

And I loved that

I love Barry Milner

Yeah

So is Moira still South Derbyshire

Or is that North of Leicestershire?

Oh, it's really complicated

Half of it is in Leicestershire

And half of it's in Derbyshire

Is that a line?

Yeah

I once had the wheels stolen

off my car

It's that kind of place

And when I rang the police

Yeah

They said

Do you live above or below the post office?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

So what would happen?

Sorry, sorry

And I'm like

Dude, I've had the wheels stolen off my car

I don't want to send an envelope

And it's like

No

Well, like

If you're on this side

That's us

If you're on this side

That's somebody else

Somebody else

But what would happen

Right?

What would happen

Is it all the four wheels?

Yeah

What happened then?

If your car was outside the post office

office oh the front wheels which the back wheels yeah we're in northwest you'd have to ring both

oh mate i had to break into that house you know did you yeah i had um um i really

this is good this is gonna i mean where are we now i don't know we're gonna be like i have no

idea where we are 40 50 minutes in so we're only just going off piece that's good for us bear with

me this would have been in 2001 or two rather pdas were a thing remember pdas like they're kind of um

palm pilots and i had i was doing a bunch of stuff at work about these hey um like the xdas they were

kind of metal things and i had like two or three of them and we were working on a bunch of projects

i worked with them so i had them at home anyway uh uh got them at home went out for the weekend did

the things that you did uh then and then monday morning came to uh go to work and pick them i

couldn't find them and then i thought oh well that's where i'm not you know they're always in

the same place i couldn't find them and then as i started to look around i noticed other stuff was

missing oh god like like um but no like like weird stuff like yeah yeah i had a an old toshiba laptop

which was old in 2000 you know it was like this would have been a relic yeah and that was missing

as well and i thought wow that's that's like dead weird um and then i was looking around other bits

are missing anyway like a day later i was outside in the garden and my neighbor was like did you hear

about all the break-ins oh wow going yeah no no talking about and then and then yeah like all

that whole row of all got houses yeah and i was and i was oh and the thing that was really funny is

the police came on the saturday and asked me and i i was generally generally like no sorry no i didn't

know yeah yeah sorry mate no no i've tried to go back and ring lots loads of stuff yeah and then

i mean just imagine how sus it sounds yeah actually mate yeah did you have anything stolen no no

and then i actually i've lost like three three pbas

so i'm sure they thought i was like i thought i thought it was me yeah yeah yeah definitely yeah

yeah i was glad i moved actually yeah yeah yeah that was a bit weird so where you were above or below

the post office i can't remember

it said sddc on the bins oh yeah that's south derbyshire district council yeah you know one of

the funniest things i ever did was i had we had a camera club called south derbyshire camera club

and the number of people that we were sdcc yeah and the number of people that got confused between

sd dc dc and sdcc so we would get messages you get angry ones about potholes yeah about bins being

emptied and stuff we're the camera club we do pictures of swans and that you'll be wanting

barry milner bridge yeah you'll be wanting you'll be wanting the council they do bins

and weird people are weird aren't they yeah yeah absolutely i like weird people i wanted to talk

about oh go on um the strange you alluded to it then when you spoke about charlie benante

yeah and him kind of doing the album title and song title that sort of thing so the way they write the

songs is a bit weird isn't it in comparison to how you normally write the songs we were a lot fresher

going in just to write it after we got home in july of 89 and uh we took off for three months so it

really gave us a chance to um to just be away from the band for the first time in years we hadn't had a

break in like four years so uh it was something that was really important to us because it's really

first vacation we ever took away from anthrax so when we started writing in october uh it just made

things go a lot smoother everybody was like really uh into being there and looking forward to uh to

writing and uh just made things work a lot easier for us after after taking a break i interviewed charlie

benante uh at the rock city yeah yeah um which was bizarre expected i've got a detour a little bit

yeah yeah so is this when you're sorry i'll let you tell the story i know this story i got an invite

to to go and interview uh anthrax i was like yeah i'm so excited so i headed up it was february january

or february free absolutely freezing cold snowing like you know that kind of snow it's not settling

on the ground but it's snowing it's really cold and anyway i'd been to like starbucks and had a cup

of tea had three wheeze three or four wheeze and i thought i can't i can't sit in here all afternoon

so i kind of went up to rock city thinking they might let me in now yeah yeah yeah so i banged on

the door i said look i i need i'm going to do to interview charlie in an hour can i come in yeah and

then oh yeah just because it's you because i was i was a regular like pretty much part of the furniture

yeah yeah yeah and they were like yeah in you come so they let me in and then they said oh look um

charlie's out the back uh you know just sit here yeah yeah and it was in their kitchen area

right yeah yeah and so i'm sitting down there and then scott ian came in yeah it's just me and scott

in there yeah and scott uh sits down to have his dinner he's having like chicken and potatoes yeah

and he looks at me and he goes what are you here for yeah i'll just talk to charlie about the album

and that and he says oh so have you anything to eat no she said you want some chicken so i sat there

yeah just just got you know i mean not in silence but it was like it was do you know what i mean

it's just the most it was literally kind of good chat and then yeah it's great and then anyway i went

to uh so were you still mid dinner yeah charlie i was kind of yeah well i know i finished my dinner

and then charlie comes down and we're going we're going and had you had dinner before you went no

also it was all right then it was perfect so you went like double dipping with your dinner no no no

no it was great um i didn't even know that like rock city fed yeah yeah yes but they do yeah and

anyway i say um either there were anthraxes i didn't even think about that yeah anyway i'll go for

the interview and i was chatting to to charlie about how the songwriting had changed oh no you

what you must have eaten the singer's dinner then do you enjoy this dinner

sounds great um but so so i was talking to him about that kind of going like

like over the years like going back to like neil turban days and back in the you know back in the early

days and i wasn't really involved in the writing that much then um you know kind of in the mid

day it is around among the living time you know that i i kind of became the de facto writer so i

would go and write the songs and but he said that they they would be like these these demos and he said

they it wasn't like uh back then it wasn't like a song necessarily but i had this tape with me i used

to carry this four track round and he said no right on the guitar so i i would get an idea i'd wake up or

you know you'd be on the bus or whatever and i get this idea and i just put my headphones on and

just strum the riff into the into the tape and then when we'd get together again when it was album

time frame it would be like just playing these clips of songs together and then we'd pull it

together as a band and as we've gone on that's turned into me now bringing almost complete songs

like to the the the riff and the song structure roughly is kind of together um probably no lyrics

um and then you know the rest of the band will put the other music around it um and he said then

like scott it's normally like scott and i will then get together in new york and then scott will do some

rhythmy parts you know and add some of the rest and kind of yeah yeah yeah judge it up a little bit

but then typically scott will write most of the lyrics yeah so and he's not the singer so he won't

be delivering the songs so so charlie benante's the drummer he writes the guitar and writes the songs

yeah and then the rhythm guitarist writes most of the lyrics most of the lyrics yeah yeah and that

bizarre yeah and it was interesting whatever works in it however you get to the song is what works but

it's an unusual setup and then he said what will happen he said scott and i will kind of bash the

songs around and we'll get them to the point where it's now a song right so it's it's roughly what you

might you you might consider like a demo and then we'll play that to the band and then the song

becomes the song when everybody goes ah okay you know i'm going to add this you know what i mean and

then and then the rest of the band will it will change and especially when like joey at that point

when joey would come in to sing it yeah yeah often with you know saying often we'll change the

structure of the song yeah uh just for flow and maybe for breathing or or when you actually hear

someone sing it doesn't sound quite the way you yeah imagined it would do so you might change it a little

and yeah exactly but then what was interesting and i the question i'd really got for him was how did

it change between uh uh writing with joey and uh writing with john bush yeah yeah and he said like

he said it was like like when it's a when it's a different range of vocal yeah it's a different range

and he said um i was asking him the question like do you like when you're writing the song do you hear

joey's voice and like did you and he said yeah he said i you know i he said as i'm writing the song

so normally the riff will come to me first and then i'll think about how to turn that into a song

yeah and but then he says as i'm doing that i'm hearing joey's voice so at that point when we were

doing um persistence of time so don't write in those songs yeah i'm imagining yeah like joey's voice and

the registers and how that how his voice will kind of run through it um and then uh you know and then

when we when we started to work with john bush i had to rethink right to do that you know because

those songs were not not that john bush couldn't sing them but he's a much lower register and it was a

different tone and and those songs were like really different they kind of yeah you know i had a

different texture to them and stuff so um but yeah he was saying that they you know had to kind of

almost relearn how to write which is why those records those john bush records sounded so different

they had a real a real significant change but yeah they're a really cool band i think in the way

that like you say just the way that they've learned to create the music to work yeah they they were

always a band as well i think and if they started to come out much more in euphoria and and this record

where they first started to come through but these really big hooks so kind of big melodic um you know

like super hooky yeah yeah uh tracks where you and choruses like proper yeah yeah proper singy

choruses i would say you know and clever lyrics yeah guitar works excellent as well oh yeah it works

excellent i mean you've got the you've got really strong riffs and it's quite simple but yeah but then

but then when there's little licks and yeah lead bits that come in and that sort of stuff it's really

tasty it's really really lovely i are oh anthrax live are a band that i've always been blown away

by always we're just five normal guys and being on stage for us is the best place to be being in a band

is playing live um it's just a lot of energy i mean i i couldn't imagine playing this music and not being

the way i am on stage you know i couldn't just stand there it just wouldn't work i saw them on the

40th anniversary tour um and it was epic it was a memory of um it was anthrax wasn't it when with

nancy on your shoulders at down yeah yeah yeah that was really cool went to um downloads it was one

of the year we played i think so it was kind of like 2019 2019 yeah so nancy would have been what

four or five maybe so yeah she was what she went wild she was like wow she was loving it she was loving

life and she was on your shoulders giving it the horns and she was yeah yeah she was i had backache

neck ache then you only wake up the next day and you're like oh my god what was that all about

yeah she was mad she like everyone was just loving it yeah yeah everyone around it was a little

celebrity she was a little she still is bless her but yeah that was really cool they're they're

phenomenal live though like for me they like somewhere like rock city 2 000 people yeah yeah yeah

and not that they're not a stadium band because i think they do they do i've seen them at stadiums as

well on like um clash of the titans tour and things like that and and they um they supported slayer yeah

on their final final not obviously their final tour but they're still touring so whatever that means but

i saw them on that with um with slayer and again they they were just epic they're really good but for me

they come alive where you've got um you know a relatively enclosed yes big enough that you've got

a lot of people but yeah um yeah they they're just epic and a lot of that i think is down like charlie's

drumming is just uber precise yes yeah and scott's guitar that kind of down picking and that do you know

what i mean he's got this uh like really deliberate do you know what i mean it's not um yeah that's a great

word for all of it it all sounds really deliberate it's not you know like some guitar like you listen

to joe satriani plays like it's like liquid it's like yeah it's like he's pouring the music from the

guitar somehow and it's like do you know what i mean it's there's not these step changes somehow yes

yeah well as scott when scott's playing it's like big slabs of stuff you know what i mean it's kind of

this there's a proper deliberate beginning and an end and it's really uh like uber controlled and it just

live that to me and not that it's not on the record but live that just seems to like leap

out at you and just sounds phenomenal um and some of those riffs as well on here um and this tracks

on here as well that i think like keep it in the family yeah yeah yeah it's just such an epic riff

yeah yeah um it's kind of i don't know it's kind of like a hidden gem i think yes on this record

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so

So

so

So

So

So

So

So

So

So

So

So

So

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So

So

To kill a man is that your fate? Your fate becomes a holy state. Why the hell do you hate?

Other than the standpoints, other than the favorite. I am, we rebel.

We're the truth and I won't keep it in the family. Live your life, take some help. Keep it in the family. The real world's outside your door. You can't keep it in the family. You got the longest way to fall. Keep it in the family.

I'm the thing that you won't fear. I won't keep it in the family. I'm the truth that you won't fear. Keep it in the family.

The real world's outside your door

You can't keep it in the family

You've got the lowest place to fall

Keep it in the family

Keep it in the family

Keep it in the family

Keep it in the family

We've done some stuff on this album

That we've never done before

There's like three tracks on this album

That we've never had anything like

This song Keep it in the family

There's no other anthrax song like it

I think they're one of the few

There aren't other bands doing this

Metallica are still epic at the moment

Yeah Megadeth too actually

I think Dave's voice is

I think he had throat cancer didn't he

And struggles a little

But you know they are

Yeah anthrax for me are kind of

Better now than they were

Back in the 80s and 90s

And Joey Ballard

If anyone's not heard

You kind of see Guns N' Roses now

You see Motley Crue now

And it's like a pay a limitation

Of what you imagine they should be

Like it should be really punchy

And it just isn't

But anthrax are

Anthrax are just

I don't know

Larger than life

I would say

Yeah yeah yeah

And you know

Always look like they're having a blast as well

Yeah

Which after like

40 odd years

It's difficult isn't it

You imagine

Doing this for 40 years

Yeah yeah yeah

I mean this record

It's like 35

Yeah yeah

Yeah 35 years

Yeah

35 years last week

Wow yeah

And it's

It's

Yeah

And they're still doing it

And they're still hitting it hard

And they're still

Yeah yeah

And they've not talked about it

I'm sure they're in the studio

For new record stuff

I'm sure

I'm sure they're kind of

Getting ready to do new stuff

But yeah

I don't know

But everybody's calling it quits

Aren't they

Yeah yeah yeah

So Slayer

Have kind of called it quits

Megadeth have said

Their last album

Yeah

This year

So they're

They're kind of saying

Look this is

This is it for us

And just make you wonder

How long

They'll kind of keep it up

But I think of all of that

Big four

Anthrax are the ones

I'd expect to just

Just carry on

Yeah

Just keep going

Yeah yeah

I think while this

I think while people care

What people are there

I just kind of get the feeling

They'll keep going

In a way it's easy for us

When we're writing now

Just because we've done

We had done four albums

And we just kind of know quicker

Whether or not we like something

Whereas in the past

Sometimes we would write songs

And then three months later

We wouldn't even like them anymore

So we wouldn't even use them

Whereas now

It's more like an instant thing

We could really tell right away

Whether we like something or not

And I think that's

That just comes from

You know from maturing

And you know doing a lot of albums

And basically just knowing

What you want

Did they have a break?

Yeah there was a massive

Well I'd say there was a massive

But they did have a fairly big break

It was during that period

Where this kind of music

Wasn't very fashionable

No that sort of 2010s

Sort of thing

Yeah they put out some

Yeah

Yeah

Yeah they did do definitely

Yeah

That new metal

Yeah yeah

Okay right

Phase if you like

So things got a bit bizarre

They did

They did the kind of

John Bush record

Which I thought were really great

Then there was like a

You know

And then the next real one

That was worship music

I think

It was a 2011

When that's when

Joey Belladonna

Yeah they brought them out there

Kind of came back

And yeah

I think I saw them on that tour

Yeah

And to be fair

They were pretty rusty on that tour

They didn't

That didn't feel

That's probably the worst

I'd ever seen them

Yeah yeah yeah

They were still really good actually

But they

Yeah

You kind of got the feeling

But they weren't that

They didn't have that cohesive

Kind of anthrax thing

Yeah yeah

It wasn't quite right

Yeah

And then I think the thing for me

That moved the needle

Was I saw them at the Barrowlands

They recorded

For All Kings

There's a DVD that they did

Recorded at the Barrowlands

In Scotland

Which I always

It's epic that place

I always think it's bizarre

That people choose to record stuff there

It's not like

You know

I mean it's a famous place

But it's

Yeah yeah yeah

It always seems like an odd place

But it

It was really really cool actually

Yeah

And

Yeah that

That for me

It was that tour

That they

It just felt like

They were back

You know

And they were kind of like

Yeah no this is

Properly on form

You know

Loads of energy

Yeah

Yeah exactly as I've kind of

Remembered them

Classic anthrax

Yeah and then I'd seen them

A few times after that

And it was always just

Kind of on par

I think the best

The best I've seen them

Was on the 40th anniversary tour

Though

Yeah yeah

They were

That was

It was quite emotional

Like at the beginning of that show

They had a curtain

That was down

Which is not like

It's not

It's not their sort of thing

Not a kind of a theatrical band

But they had a curtain

That was down

And just as the kind of

The background music stops

They then play this video

Yeah

From the back of the stage

On the curtain

Nice

And it's kind of people

From other bands

It's like people from Metallica

Yes

And from Exodus

And all these people

From Judas Priest

Talking about

Anthrax

Yeah

Talking about

What it means to them

And all the

Aussie was on there

And it was like

Yeah it was properly

The metal community

Coming together

To celebrate each other

Yeah it was

It was a bit

It made me a bit emotional

To be honest

And then

Music should be

Yeah I think

Phenomenal

And then of course

You see like

As soon as then

They start

You've got 50 year old men

Who should know better

With super tight trousers

And white plimsolls

And two tight t-shirts

With grey hair

Flying everywhere

You know

Crowd surfing to the front

And it was epic

It was

It was

It was one of the

Best nights

I think at Rock City

I had in a long time

And it was

Yeah

Absolutely epic

But there was just

There's something about

The crowd

And about the band

Yeah

That just works

Really really well

Yeah yeah yeah

Shall we do some facts

Yes

Let me get my fact sheet

I'm

I'm

Vaguely ready

For my fact sheet

So let me try

And do my facts sheet

Was released

On August 21st

1990

And it's currently

August the 30th

Ah

2025

Yeah

Which makes it

Just over

35 years old

Which sounds very

Very old

It was released

On Megaforce

And Island Records

They did a

Like a

Compilation called

The Island Years

Which had a lot

Of these tracks on there

Which was pretty

Pretty cool

And it was nominated

For a Grammy

In 91

They toured this album

Really hard

Yeah

And there were some

Lovely bits on there

So they did all kinds

Of cool touring

And

You know

Festivals

And all kinds of stuff

The thing that always

Stands out to me

Was they were on

Married with Children

So they were on

They were on an episode

Called My Dinner

With Anthrax

There's a link to it

In our blog

On Rufology.co

If you do not

Remember seeing it

It was bonkers

The kids are married

With children

Won Anthrax

In a raffle

Anthrax just turned up

There

They were abusive

And did all that

Because married with children

I don't think you could

Get away with it

It's a little bit

It's very funny

But it's a bit

It's not very PC

Yeah

And anyway

They

They ended up playing

Which was

Which was

Yeah

Pretty pretty cool

It was recorded

December 89

To February 1990

In A&M Studios

And Conway Studios

In Hollywood

But mixed elsewhere

It runs 58.40

That's a long album

It's a long

For a kind of

Thresh album

You've got a 60 minute

Limit haven't you

You've got a proper

Any time of a 60 minute

And it goes off

At 60 minutes

Can't pay attention

Not any more than that

Can't pay attention

For more than 60

That's crazy

Absolutely crazy

Produced by Mark Dodson

And Mark Dodson

Did State of Euphoria

As well

Sound really different albums

Yeah

And we talk about

Producers a lot on here

And how they have

Their tone

And stuff

But I mean

Quite clearly

A producer can

Do different things

And I think

That was really evident

One of the

Thing

I remember in the

Interviews with this

And it's in my

Fact sheet as well

They had a fire

So they had a

Recording space

Like a rehearsal space

And it sat on fire

And all of their live

Gids went like

A hundred thousand dollars

Worth

Reputedly

Of stuff just

Disappeared

Which was

Really tough for them

Really

I remember hearing

Interviews with the band

At the time

And they were pretty down

And they were like

Well it would

That's your livelihood

Isn't it

That's like

And it's

And the thing is

The thing you've got to

Remember about a band

If you're not in a band

Is that they're very

Close

Knit

Like bubbles

If that makes any sense

And it's you versus

The world a little bit

You know as a team

And if something like

That goes on

That's going to be

Pretty disruptive

And pretty destructive

To the ethos

Of the whole thing

But it's just like

There are things

That you connect to

I mean it's

I'm not particularly

Materialistic

And I know you're not

But there are things

That you attach

There are things

That I really like

And they're not like

Super expensive things

They're not like

Super aspirational things

But there are things

That I like

I have

Your PDAs in Moira

In the cheaper laptop

But there are things

That I really

Really like

And I would be

Really upset

If they were not there

And I would imagine

In that space

There was tons of stuff

That the band

Sentimental

Yeah like

The guitars

From the first live shows

And stuff that they recorded

Albums with

You know

Anyway

I can totally get

To get that

Singles from the album

Got the time

Which was

I think the first one

In my world

Was the second

And then

Belly of the beast

Yes

I always thought

It was a really

Odd choice to do

Got the time first

It's not my

I like it

It's not my favourite

From that

And it was

In my world

That really hooked me

On this one

And I thought

It was absolutely

Mega

The album

The album itself

Changed in tone

So

Previously

There was a lot

Of humour

And comic book

Stuff

That they

Kind of

Connected to

This one

Wasn't

It was a lot

More mature

Later on

They would

They would

Go and

And do

Like mashups

With rap bands

And other

Kind of stuff

As well

Yeah

Which

Yeah

I think

Yeah

They were never

Never shy to

Experiment

No

This one

So Persistence

Of Time

Was the last

Album

With Joey

Belladonna

Yeah

Before they

Went on

To have

John Bush

Belladonna

So they

Did an EP

In 91

After this

Called Attack

Of The Killer

Bees

And

Joey

Belladonna

Is on

Some of

Those tracks

But not all

Of them

Oh okay

And the split

Was pretty

Acrimonious

Apparently

He

Which is strange

That they got it

Back online then

In those early

20 cents

So yeah

92

He basically

Left and came

Back for

Worship music

In 2011

Yeah

And

From memory

It's not

I didn't put

On my fact sheet

But from memory

This was to do

With direction

Joey wanted to do

More thrashy stuff

And the band

Wanted to do

Different

Stuff

The

Sixth track

On the album

Intro to reality

Beecher's dialogue

From the

Twilight Zone

Oh it's the

Twilight Zone

Right right

Called Death's

Head Revisited

Keep it in the

Family and

In My World

And Belly of the

Beast

Were later

Rerecorded with

John Bush

And Rob

Caggiano

Who was the

New lead

Guitarist

After Dan Spitz

And it was

On an album

Called

The Greater

Of Two Evils

Which is quite

A cool record

Yeah

I quite like that

I'm not sure

I'd call it an album

There's lots of

Like

You know what I mean

It wasn't like

Lots of new stuff

Yeah

No

Yeah

But it's like

Reworkings

And

Yeah

Yeah

It was quite cool

I remember

Listening to that

And it was

It was pretty

Wicked

Persistence of

Time

Highest position

On the

Billboard 200

So the US

Chart was

Number 24

Certified gold

By the RIAA

On January 17th

1991

They

Really toured

They rode this

Album quite hard

Yes

So I think

It had like

A run time

Of like

A year and a half

Where they were

Really actively

Promoting before

They dropped back

Into the studio

And figured out

What they were

Going to do next

Yeah

Yeah

Which yeah

I thought was

It's an

Interesting one

I think it's

The first

Instrumental

Intro to reality

I think it's

The first

Instrumental

That the band

Did

I don't think

They'd ever

Done that before

Has a track

On there

H8 Red

Which obviously

Is hatred

Which we've

Talked about

That before

Japanese edition

Had bonus track

Protestants survive

Which was a

Discharge cover

Yeah

It had a track

Called discharge

And then it had

A backwards

Message quiz

Spoken by

Charlie Benante

Played in reverse

Set a quiz

Mentioned in the

Japanese language

Booklet removed

From 2007

And all future

Reprints of the

Japanese CD

So if you got

That it's uber

Rare and

You should keep

It and definitely

Not sell it on

Ebay

There's a thing

About Japanese

Imports

Doing different

Stuff on it

They always had

Like super cool

Stuff and it

Was always the

Japanese copy

That you would

Want as a fan

Yeah totally

I remember that

Yeah you would

Always be searching

For the Japanese

Versions

In the band

We've not talked

About that

So Joey

Balladonna

Lead vocals

Dan Spitz

Lead guitar

I think lovely

Lead guitar

Work on this

He also played

Rhythm on

Got the time

Right okay

On the recording

Scott Ian

Rhythm guitar

Backing vocals

Lead guitar

On intro to reality

Right that's him

Is it okay

Yeah he did lead

On got the time

Yeah okay

So they did a

Proper split on that one

Frank Bellow

Frank Bellow's got

Awesome hair

So shooting the band

I would always go

And make sure

I'd spend time

With Frank

And shoot

Because what he

Will do is

He's got really

Really long hair

And like bass

Guitar players

Are either really

Boring or epic

There's no middle

Band

And he's on the

He's like a

I don't know

He's like an

Orangutan

He's a huge

Monster of a man

And he kind of

Bounds around the

Stage

And his hair's

Everywhere

And he's just

So much fun to

Shoot

Some of my

Favourite shots

Of Frank Bellow

And Charlie Benante

Drums lead guitar

On intro to reality

He did the

Intro harmony

On that one

Which he did

With Scott

Which I think

Is really really

Cool

And we've talked

About the production

I'm going to go

Through it though

So Mark Dodson

Was producer

He did the

Track engineering

Steve Thompson

Michael Barbiero

Did the mixing

At Electric Lady

Greg Goldman

Brian Schubler

Marnie Bryant

And Ed

Correngo

Were assistant

Engineers

Bob Ludwig

Did the mastering

A master disc

In New York

John and

Marsha Zazula

Were executive

Producers

Don

Brotigam

Did the artwork

And Warring

Abbott

Did the photography